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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jmucchiello" data-source="post: 4714168" data-attributes="member: 813">And that is part of the disconnect you are encountering in this thread. What you call pissing on the DM only has meaning if the DM has a story to tell. If the DM just has a sandbox for you to play in, sand can absorb a lot of piss. Okay, that analogy is getting into non-grandma territory. But amazingly, the analogy is very accurate. Players have to engage in highly self-destructive behavior in order to destroy a sandbox game. Setting off a fireball in a tavern when you can't escape the town is willfully self-destructive IMO.As for your second point, your cause would be better served by abandoning this thread and starting over with a less "I'm going to fix X with Y" and more "Hey, would you play D&D in Y style? I do and here's how" introduction. Because right now it seems like this thread is about X.</blockquote>