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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jim pinto" data-source="post: 4728938" data-attributes="member: 17619">ResetOkay.So, now that everyone's forgotten what this thread is about, let me try a new tact.One. This is just an idea for how to invest players more in the action of the game.Two. We all kind of a agreed that players that don't really show up to "play" aren't high on any list of gaming priorities. Right?Three. I'm not a fan of the GM as "entertainer" idea. If you want to sit back and be entertained passively, pay me for my time. If you want to engage the story and be involved (and maybe impact the game), I'll gladly GM for you for free.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Four. I'm not a big fan of adventures that are about "killing orcs" or stopping a lich… just because he's a lich.Five. Bashing someone's play style isn't my thing. Expanding concepts and playing different ways in.There are plenty of tools out there for doing it different, but I think that everytime someone says different, people hear "better." When in fact, playing different for player X is better for him/her. Dogs in the Vineyard is a much more enjoyable game experience for me than anything in the Forgotten Realms.And a lot of that has to do with the people showing up to play, I now have to admit. Someone playing DOGS is showing up to play something very different.Let's pretend for a second that every RPG company in the 90s had gone the mass market route with their products instead of the hobbyist, number crunching route that most games took. We'd be looking at a different hobby. Better? Who knows? More accessible to newbies? Most likely. A different play experience than WoW? Most definitely.A long time ago, WOTC (I think it was WOTC; don't quote me) did a study about gamers, finding that over 60% of their consumer base wanted rules, weapons, feats, and so on. The crunchy bits that turn RPGs into CCGs. Was it any surprise that 4E turned out to be for those consumers? It's apocryphal to compare 4E to WoW, but there it is. So many people see similarities, that it's become trite to even say it now. Some people are loving it and some people are praying that 3.75 makes D&D fun again.Neither of these products are trying to capture the attention of the player who wants a story or an easier time at the table. Just look at the advice sections of these books if you don't believe me.I was about to go on a big tangent there, but I think I have the quintessential question here.Which came first? Bad advice sections or players tuning out advice sections altogether? When did every RPG read the same tired advice for GMs as moderator and storytellers and ringleaders… blah blah blah…? When did people just stop reading the last 50 pages of an RPG?</blockquote>

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