Fox's cunning and oozes?

[pawsplay]

Actually, ghosts have a strength score.

I don't see anything in their description that would indicate that, considering

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks.

 

[Nail]

The SRD says:

"Abilities: Same as the base creature, except that the ghost has no Constitution score, and its Charisma score increases by +4. "

That says nothing about losing it's Strength score. You are confusing incorporeality with being a ghost.

On when incorporeal, a ghost has no Strength score. When on the ethereal plane, a ghost is not incorporeal. Therefore.....

 

[pawsplay]

The SRD says:
That says nothing about losing it's Strength score. You are confusing incorporeality with being a ghost.

On when incorporeal, a ghost has no Strength score. When on the ethereal plane, a ghost is not incorporeal. Therefore.....

Sorry, I missed the bit about it being non-incorporeal on the Ethereal Plane. It only lacks a strength score on the Material Plane. (There should be no argument there; the incorporeal subtype specifies that).

 

[mvincent]

To clarify, if you cast bull's strength on a ghost (on any plane) its strength will be increased. This will really only help it against ethereal opponents, but it'll work.

 

[Hypersmurf]

To clarify, if you cast bull's strength on a ghost (on any plane) its strength will be increased. This will really only help it against ethereal opponents, but it'll work.

Out of curiosity... can you cast a spell with a range of touch on an incorporeal creature?

"Such creatures are insubstantial and can't be touched by nonmagical matter or energy."
"You must touch a creature or object to affect it."

Are "you" nonmagical matter, or magical matter? The spell does not discharge until you touch a target creature, and an incorporeal creature cannot be touched by "you" unless you are not nonmagical matter.

If a spell targets the incorporeal creature, there's a 50% chance it will take damage... but a touch spell won't target it if you can't touch it...

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

can you cast a spell with a range of touch on an incorporeal creature?

Yes

If a spell targets the incorporeal creature, there's a 50% chance it will take damage... but a touch spell won't target it if you can't touch it.

I believe that just refers to range (none) and AC used. Taken literally, the term "ranged touch" would become an oxymoron.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I believe that just refers to range (none) and AC used. Taken literally, the term "ranged touch" would become an oxymoron.

Spells that use a ranged touch attack mechanic have a range of Close, Medium, Long, or Range Expressed In Feet. They don't have a range of Touch.

I'm talking about the description of the range "Touch", which states "You must touch a creature or object to affect it." This statement is not applicable to ranged touch attacks, so there's no oxymoron involved.

If you must touch a creature or object to affect it (true), and if an incorporeal creature cannot be touched (conditionally true), then you cannot affect the incorporeal creature.

... but only if the 'conditionally true' fits the situation of delivering a touch spell.

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

Out of curiosity... can you cast a spell with a range of touch on an incorporeal creature?

"Such creatures are insubstantial and can't be touched by nonmagical matter or energy."
"You must touch a creature or object to affect it."

Are "you" nonmagical matter, or magical matter? The spell does not discharge until you touch a target creature, and an incorporeal creature cannot be touched by "you" unless you are not nonmagical matter.

If a spell targets the incorporeal creature, there's a 50% chance it will take damage... but a touch spell won't target it if you can't touch it...

-Hyp.

I've always run it as a touch spell has a glowing manifestation on the hand as appropriate for the spell. On contact, the spell kicks off. For incorps, the touch is done by the magic of the spell on the caster’s hand, the damage is rolled, the 50%/50% is then rolled. It has to be done this way since if the effect was not damage, the 50%/50% would not be rolled.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I've always run it as a touch spell has a glowing manifestation on the hand as appropriate for the spell. On contact, the spell kicks off.

But it's not the spell that needs to touch the object or creature, it's 'you'.

-Hyp.

 

[Jack Simth]

But it's not the spell that needs to touch the object or creature, it's 'you'.

-Hyp.

May not be perfect RAW, but I'd consider a spellcasters hand to be a magical weapon when the spellcaster is holding a touch spell.....