[FR] Campaign Setting interpretation diatribe

[jester47]

Fortunatly, that won't be a problem for me. My players exposure to the realms has been limited to the Baldur's gate and Icewind dale CRPGs.

These are awesome introductions to the realms and what they can be, at least IWD. ( I have not played Baldurs gate) If the whole of the realms looked and felt like that I do not think I would have the problem I am talking about above. There would be no question...

oh, and here-

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43355

Aaron.

 

[Storminator]

I have a very bizarre take on the Realms.

It's very Tolkien like.

Every important place in Tolkien's work is defined by the amazingly powerful NPC that lives there. Without that NPC, the location loses all meaning (Rivendell if Elrond never lived there? Mordor without Sauron? Lorien without Galadriel?). Same with the Realms. Thay has Szass Tam, the Dales Elminster. Silverymoon has Alustrial, Aglarond the Simbul, Waterdeep is Khelban's baby.

Sure there are exceptions (who's the NPC of Sembia?), but as a rule it holds up. If you embrace this philosophy, the Realms make a lot of sense, and it fits in very well with Jester's point. What is in between these NPCs? Contested places, power vacuums, opportunities...

PS

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

As a DM running a long-lasting FR campaign ( and as a huge FR fan) I'll throw my 2 cents into the bag.

Berandor: That people might actually think of going into business selling food is a droll idea to you? I mean, really, who doesn't have taverns, inns, and other eateries in their campaign? The idea is to emphasize the fact that Cormyr is one of the few truly civilized/tamed lands of the Realms, where such luxuries can actually be found (well, until the dragon that is). As far as Aurora's, I feel the opposite - the catalogue mimicing a 1920's Sears&Roebuck mail order is jarring to the setting, especially the peddling descriptions found within. However, the concept of a magic shipping company, given Faerun's focus on mercantile industry, is logical, not whimsical. The setting actually embraces the high magic that is inherent to D&D ... the concept of an Intelligence 18+ Wizard with the capability of teleporting objects NOT embarking on such an entreprenuership (sp?) boggles me.

Concerning Books: The reading of FR books by my players doesn't bother me in the least, in fact, I like seeing my friends enjoying the setting as much as I do. The Realms is a really big place, and there are only so many heroes presented in the fiction. Avoiding them and their plot lines doesn't seem all that improbable if that's the road you would want to take - I'd rather involve my campaign with their struggles. My current campaign involves the return of the Shadovar using lots of material from the books concerning the event as source material. Two of my friends have read the first books of the series, and they instantly recognized what that shadowy, non-undead (double negative ) observing them during a pitched battle was. It was a reward of sorts, and deepens the campaign by tying the fiction to the game table.

The Realms peaks my interest through the mix of prevalent magic, dynamic societies lacking in over-reaching stable empires/governments (yawn), sprawling history, and overwhelming feeling of the good guys barely holding on to the ledge in their efforts to protect society.

My name's Matt, and I'm addicted to the Forgotten Realms.

PS I dislike Drizzt more than Bane, Cyric, and Shar combined. He's like Superman only worse - we're supposed to feel sorry for him.

 

[Quinn]

I just feel overwhelmed every time I read the Forgotten Realms campaign setting book. There is a wealth of ideas but somehow there is a lack of structure...a lack of background. I get the sense that Forgotten Realms tries to BE everything. Every setting/genre is represented from Arthurian England to the Arabian Nights. Mixed into it are numerous organizations like The Zhentarim, The Shadovar, The Harpers, The Cult of the Dragon, The Red Wizards, and so on. The aims of many of these organizations tend to run together and blur. Add to that all the various gods who are directly involved in the goings-on in the land, and things just seem chaotic. I read it and feel a need to wipe out half the Realms in one fell swoop just to bring a semblence of order to it.

 

[jester47]

I have a very bizarre take on the Realms.

It's very Tolkien like.

Every important place in Tolkien's work is defined by the amazingly powerful NPC that lives there. Without that NPC, the location loses all meaning (Rivendell if Elrond never lived there? Mordor without Sauron? Lorien without Galadriel?). Same with the Realms. Thay has Szass Tam, the Dales Elminster. Silverymoon has Alustrial, Aglarond the Simbul, Waterdeep is Khelban's baby.

Sure there are exceptions (who's the NPC of Sembia?), but as a rule it holds up. If you embrace this philosophy, the Realms make a lot of sense, and it fits in very well with Jester's point. What is in between these NPCs? Contested places, power vacuums, opportunities...

PS

Wow thats a really good point... I never noticed that, but you are right in a sense. Fzoul has the moonsea, Smemmnon had the western heartlands, Manshoon now has everywhere! Heh, manshoon as an anti-gandalf...

Bunch of crazy wizards on top of everything else I have been saying... the place is brutal nuts!

Aaron.

 

[cptg1481]

Re: Re: [FR] Campaign Setting interpretation diatribe

I think most Realms-bashing comes from several sources:

....

3. People who have a special dislike for high-level characters and project that dislike upon the setting, as if having a couple handfulls of really powerful people means that great a deal in the everyday functioning of the Realms. (Elminster is the lover of a goddess and is 42nd level? Why doesn't he rule the world!? If I were 42nd level, I would! The setting must be terrible.)

....

This is an awesome point.....while I respect everyone else's right to play their game as they wish, I have noticed a general trend on the boards that it is somehow cool to bash those who enjoy high-magic, high-level, and high-fantasy.

It seems to me that there is a certain amount of eliteism associated with this those who hold this view. It is almost as if the low-magic, "gritty" style of play is a higher form of gaming and to enjoy a setting in which magic is more common makes one - dare I say, munchkinesque.

I like both types of play for different reasons and enjoy some of the aspects of higher level play a little more than low level. I like the idea of managing a stronghold, followers, creating magic items and such in a big way. The FR setting facilitates this style very well and is a well thought-through resource that gives a million and one hooks and ideas for running a game.

I'm like the setting myself and I also don't think that it deserves the negative stigma either. Like I said above I think that alot of this stems from the eliteism and validity that some associate with low-magic gaming.

Just like anything some folks just think it trendy or fashionable to buck the system so to say. What I mean is that, while according to the core rules D&D can be played many different ways, the standard for advancement and rewards facilitates a more magic heavy, flashy style of high-fantasy game.

Therefore to play a more gritty, low-power, low-magic game is to belong to the elite, and thus "cool" few who find the rule set as is to be too easy or heavy on rewards and advancement to challenge them. They require a more restrictive system to challenge their superior role-playing skills.

This is just my opinion, I'm not attacking anyone, I just think that this may be a reason that some folks bash the FRCS.

 

[Napftor]

I just feel overwhelmed every time I read the Forgotten Realms campaign setting book. There is a wealth of ideas but somehow there is a lack of structure...a lack of background. I get the sense that Forgotten Realms tries to BE everything. Every setting/genre is represented from Arthurian England to the Arabian Nights. Mixed into it are numerous organizations like The Zhentarim, The Shadovar, The Harpers, The Cult of the Dragon, The Red Wizards, and so on. The aims of many of these organizations tend to run together and blur. Add to that all the various gods who are directly involved in the goings-on in the land, and things just seem chaotic. I read it and feel a need to wipe out half the Realms in one fell swoop just to bring a semblence of order to it.

It's the many ingredients of a stew that make it all the more appetizing. Otherwise, you would only have broth. The fact that FR has a bit of everything allows a DM to take whatever elements appeal to him (and his players) and mix it into his own stew. I find it amazing how many people can't seem to toss away bits they do not like in a setting. If you're a Cult of the Dragon type of guy, then ignore the other evil groups. Once the players get weary of fighting the Cult, introduce another group, say the red Wizards, that are in cohoots with them and allow the pairing to take its own life based on the bare bones info given in the FRCS.

The point is that the Realms has enough for every campaign to be happy and full. Don't like Elminster? Push the eject button and never speak of the Old Mage again.

 

[jester47]

I just feel overwhelmed every time I read the Forgotten Realms campaign setting book. There is a wealth of ideas but somehow there is a lack of structure...a lack of background. I get the sense that Forgotten Realms tries to BE everything. Every setting/genre is represented from Arthurian England to the Arabian Nights. Mixed into it are numerous organizations like The Zhentarim, The Shadovar, The Harpers, The Cult of the Dragon, The Red Wizards, and so on. The aims of many of these organizations tend to run together and blur. Add to that all the various gods who are directly involved in the goings-on in the land, and things just seem chaotic. I read it and feel a need to wipe out half the Realms in one fell swoop just to bring a semblence of order to it.

I had the same problem. Start by reading pages 5 - 7 and 76 - 96 straight through. Then read 260 - 271 (history) then read organizations, then gods and then all the sidebars you havenot read yet. That should give you a very good idea of how it is all fitting together and the background everything goes up against.

The realms are chaotic and scary. I like em like that.

Aaron.

 

[Quinn]

It's the many ingredients of a stew that make it all the more appetizing. Otherwise, you would only have broth. The fact that FR has a bit of everything allows a DM to take whatever elements appeal to him (and his players) and mix it into his own stew. I find it amazing how many people can't seem to toss away bits they do not like in a setting. If you're a Cult of the Dragon type of guy, then ignore the other evil groups. Once the players get weary of fighting the Cult, introduce another group, say the red Wizards, that are in cohoots with them and allow the pairing to take its own life based on the bare bones info given in the FRCS.

The point is that the Realms has enough for every campaign to be happy and full. Don't like Elminster? Push the eject button and never speak of the Old Mage again.

The problem is there is something beyond just getting rid of what I don't like and keeping what I do like. Huge, sweeping sections of the setting would simply be done away with. At what point do you say, "Why bother? Use another setting that fits closer to what you want."? That's part of the issue for me: There are other settings that stir more imagination in me.

 

[Quinn]

I had the same problem. Start by reading pages 5 - 7 and 76 - 96 straight through. Then read 260 - 271 (history) then read organizations, then gods and then all the sidebars you havenot read yet. That should give you a very good idea of how it is all fitting together and the background everything goes up against.

The realms are chaotic and scary. I like em like that.

Aaron.

It could be presentation, this is true. For me, one of the best ideas in the setting is the Fall of Netheril and the return of the Shadovar. Combined with the supplemental material on WotC's website, that's the cornerstone of a great campaign.

But herein is the weird part: Now I want to take that work and idea, remove it from the FR, and plop it in my own setting for my own game. And that's what I can't put my finger on: I like a lot of ideas in FR, but there is something about it that makes the whole less appealing than its various parts. I like a concept from FR, but I don't want to use the setting that it originated from.