[FR] In what order should I read the books?

[The Serge]

Icewind Dale's, I believe, his first big time, professional undertaking. His talent improves dramatically in subsequent books. However, I don't like him and never will (and I've read 10 of his books in order to find out what I should avoid as a writer... And because I wanted to understand as much as possible about Drizzt and his dubious popularity).

That said, I've found most of the novels out of TSR/WotC to be substandard. Weis and Hickman of Dragonlance fame are the only authors of the talent I'm drawn to and their writing certainly improved over time.

As for what you could read now...? I recommend Caitlin Kiernan's Threshold and Low Red Moon. Modern fantastic "horror." Evocative, moody stuff. Excellent. She's a brilliant writer who captures a reader with frightening ease. Highly recommended!

 

[Angcuru]

I bought the Dark Elf Trilogy a while back but never got around to reading it. Now, in this thread I get the impression that Sal's writing is either readable, or simply terrible. Can anyone explain either view?

 

[Dark Jezter]

I bought the Dark Elf Trilogy a while back but never got around to reading it. Now, in this thread I get the impression that Sal's writing is either readable, or simply terrible. Can anyone explain either view?

I've found most people who think Salvatore's books are terrible and totally without merit can be lumped into a few categories:

The Pidgeonholers: These people have been underwhelmed by the FR novel scene on a whole (which is understandable, since there are a lot of awful FR novels out there). Since Salvatore is the most popular FR author, he's guilty by association.

The Literary Snobs: These guys hate Salvatore's books because they aren't "high literature." They don't carry any deep messages, they don't try to change the reader's outlook on life, and they weren't written by an Oxford intellectual. Salvatore's books don't pretend to be anything but entertaining tales of high adventure, much like Robert E. Howard's Conan stories, and because of that they believe that his popularity is undeserved.

The English Professors: "No no! The narrative here is all wrong, and I didn't like the flow of the last chapter at all. Why does this guy sell so many books? Don't people understand that it's more important for a book to be technically flawless than entertaining?"

The Tolkienophiles: These guys believe that Tolkien is God. All other fantasy novels are nothing compared to his marvelous works. Salvatore, Martin, Howard, Lieber, Moorecock, Jordan, Brooks, and everyone else are all hacks in their eyes.

The Anti-Drizzts: These people are sick and tired of players creating dual-scimitar wielding, good-aligned drow rangers in their D&D campaigns, and they're lashing out at Salvatore in retaliation.

Not everybody is like that, though. Some people have given Salvatore a fair shake, and simply found his novels not to their liking. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[The Serge]

At the expense of sounding like I'm defending my position (which I'm not... Just trying to get a conversation going), my distaste for Salvatore is multitiered... Just like my distaste for Goodkind.

Salvatore's writing is plodding, dull, and cheap. His characters are generally cutout carbon copies of "traditional" archetypes. Drizzt is generally the reluctant, yet fearsome hero, mysterious in his nature and distrusted by a world that hates his kind in spite of the good he does. Bruegor the dwarf is... Well, he's another grumpy dwarf who fiercely loves his friends, hates his enemies, is a father figure, and tends to be the comic relief. Wulfgar is the huge barbarian. Catibrie is the fiesty damsel who's more deadly than most give her credit for, but is still the girl in the middle of a love triangle. I mean, we've seen these thousands of times before. While I've no problem with archetypes in any genre, we've seen these particular ones done countless times to much better and less obvious effect. Salvatore offers them up as a simple foundation to promote simple story telling.

His characters are shallow. His stories and an inch deep in a child's plastic pool. There are no twists, surprises, or intrigue. There's nothing to challenge the reader in any way. The only place in which he excels is in describing his fighting scenes. Initially, this is pretty cool. It evokes a cinematic sense. However, it gets tired and a worthless consumption of space. By the third book, we know just how great these combatants are; there's no reason to belabor the point. While he's wasting sentence after sentence describing how Drizzt swings his swords, we could be learning a bit more aobut Drizzt or any of the other characters... Or the world around them and the history that influenced the present.

Plot? Well, the plots have gotten better over time. This much is true. But they're still dull and predictable. This is generally acceptable when the characters are intriguing, or there's some humor, or something. But, we don't have that here. Not at all.

I'm not asking for a literary masterpiece. I'm not asking for a great deal of internal consistency. I am asking for something at least partially unique or well done. We've neither in Salvatore's case. Heck, I think that most people who like him (and I know a few) can recognize that he's really not as talented (at least with the WotC stuff) as many make him out to be.

 

[Mystery Man]

Not everybody is like that, though. Some people have given Salvatore a fair shake, and simply found his novels not to their liking. Nothing wrong with that.

That would be me. It's too much dizzying, hopping around from character to character for me.

Salvatore's writing is plodding, dull, and cheap. His characters are generally cutout carbon copies of "traditional" archetypes.

His characters are shallow. His stories and an inch deep in a child's plastic pool.

Plot? Well, the plots have gotten better over time. This much is true. But they're still dull and predictable.

he's really not as talented (at least with the WotC stuff) as many make him out to be.

Not that I agree or disagree but I think comments like these are what got the WoTC novel section shut down.

 

[Mystery Man]

Hi all,

Just a quick question about the Forgotten Realms novels. Is there a recommended order in which to read the books? Maybe its me, but I can't seem to find what looks to be an official timeline...or is there no such thing?

Thanks in advance,
Matt

You can get the book list in different orders here (Forgotten Realms: The Library) if you want.

I recommend reading Ed's Elminster, Making of a Mage first all the way up to Elminster in Hell. I found E. in Hell unreadable (personal pref) so you may want to check that out at the library first.

Elaine Cunningham is exceptional. Her Daughter of the Drow series rocks.

 

[The Serge]

Not that I agree or disagree but I think comments like these are what got the WoTC novel section shut down.

What's your point? Not trying to be snippish or anything, just curious as to what this means given the direction the conversation has taken.

Frankly, I think WotC made something of a mistake in shutting down the section. Aside from disuaging discourse on their material (which happens all of the time for the game), it makes them appear to be resistant to criticism of their novel line... Which seems petty. Of course, I never posted there, but I don't see the reason to shut that down when negative comments about for their accessories and core rules.

 

[Mystery Man]

What's your point? Not trying to be snippish or anything, just curious as to what this means given the direction the conversation has taken.

Frankly, I think WotC made something of a mistake in shutting down the section. Aside from disuaging discourse on their material (which happens all of the time for the game), it makes them appear to be resistant to criticism of their novel line... Which seems petty. Of course, I never posted there, but I don't see the reason to shut that down when negative comments about for their accessories and core rules.

I didn't mean to single you out so if it seems like an attack it isn't.

Not that I'm an oafish fawning fan of Salvatore's by any means, I've had my problems with some of his books. And I'm sure he could care less. But....
There's a difference between an honest critique and constructive critisism and just being downright mean spirited. And even your comments are tame compared to some of the real scorchers I've read before they shut it down. I don't blame them, but then again I don't much care one way or the other. There are lots of places to go and discuss the FR novels, Candlekeep, Salvatore's own website that are better than WoTC anyway.

 

[Faraer]

Best starting points are Ed Greenwood's Spellfire (written to introduce the Realms to new readers, and unparalleled in that purpose), Elaine Cunningham's Elfshadow, and the multi-author The Halls of Stormweather. Ed's written in the Realms for 20 years longer than anyone else, and there's no substitute for the authentic Realmsian life his novels breathe.

Elminster in Hell is much the most ambitious Realms novel written, with only Cormyr and Evermeet of comparable ambition. It may be my favourite, but its resonance is greater if it's not the first Realms book you read. The latest, Elminster's Daughter, is actually a good Realms-introduction that stands up just fine as a stand-alone sword and sorcery novel.

Bob Salvatore's books, and I don't think he'd necessarily disagree, are only peripherally about the Realms. They're set in their own enclave which doesn't have much to do thematically or in terms of continuity (though this is less true lately) with the greater Realms.

(I second the Caitlín Kiernan recommendation, on an unrelated note.)

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Elaine Cunningham is exceptional. Her Daughter of the Drow series rocks.

Seconded. She also wrote Evermeet, which (IMO) is quite good. Also, pick up the anthology Realms of the Underdark - her short story, Rite of Blood is excellent.