[FR] Spellfire Adept PrC

[kuroshidaku]

Just wondering if anyone has an oppinion on this PrC, a modified spellfire wielder with spell progression (spellfire wielder from Magic of Faerun). I've juggled round the abilities a bit, improved capacity is one level later, and the adept can cast his own spells to charge the spellfire

 

[Khaalis]

Opinion

I can see the desire to mix Spellfire with Spellcasting, but the only premise for this that exists in the FR world is Elminster and this is only because of Mystra's gift. Normally the only Spellfire are not spellcasters. Spellfire wielders are born not trained first of all, and due to this the ability to channel the weave as a Spellfire wielder precludes any ability to channel the weave in another way (at least in the way I interpret the ability to channel magic).
However since you can technically have a Sorcerer/Wizard I "guess" you could have a Spellfire User/Arcane Caster.

Now with that said, I will go on the assumption the class will remain. Here are comments on the mechanics.

1) I would reduce the spellcasting requirement to 1st level spells. The only requirement based on the class description is that they know how to cast spells.

2) I would retain the Endurance feat as a Requirement.

3) I would retain the Concentration (8 ranks) Requirement.

4) I would reduce the Spells per day to every other level (odd) rather than every level. It is too powerful with the every level increase + all of the Spellfire powers.

5) Charge Fire: No limit on spells cast to charge spellfire. This is what the Storage mechanic is used for - kind of redundant.

6) Need to add Class Skills and Skill Points. I suggest the same as for the Channeler.

Other than that, I think it is an acceptable variation on the Spellfire weilder and gives an option other than just the Channeler.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Opinion

I can see the desire to mix Spellfire with Spellcasting, but the only premise for this that exists in the FR world is Elminster and this is only because of Mystra's gift.

Elminster has Silverfire, not Spellfire. It's also worth noting that Silverfire also channels Spellfire, just in a weaker form.

Spellfire wielders are born not trained first of all, and due to this the ability to channel the weave as a Spellfire wielder precludes any ability to channel the weave in another way (at least in the way I interpret the ability to channel magic).

Rules-wise, though, there is no precedent for this. In fact, it's quite the opposite in the case of The Chosen.

 

[Khaalis]

Re: Re: Opinion

Elminster has Silverfire, not Spellfire. It's also worth noting that Silverfire also channels Spellfire, just in a weaker form.

Actually, If I remember correctly, before he was abominated in 3E, the old 2E stats listed him as being a Spellfire wielder which is why he could train Shandril. Silverfire is something different form Spellfire, but at one time in his character history he had both Spellfire and Silverfire.

Rules-wise, though, there is no precedent for this. In fact, it's quite the opposite in the case of The Chosen.

Here I do agree with kreynolds. I feel that it should not exist, as I stated in the begining of my original post. Channeling Spellfire should preclude the ability to channel magic.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Opinion

Silverfire is something different form Spellfire...

Spellfire is the raw energy of the Weave. The Spellfire Wielder feat lets you wield Spellfire. The Silverfire supernatural ability _also_ allows you to wield spellfire, just in a minor form. Both of these abilities allow you to channel the raw energy of the weave, spellfire. However, silverfire does not prohibit any of the chosen from taking spellcasting levels. I just haven't ever seen any evidence at all that wielding Spellfire prohibits you from all forms of spellcasting.

Here I do agree with kreynolds.

What do you agree with?

 

[Khaalis]

I was originally agreeing that there is no precident for a Spellfire Wielder/Caster.

As for the Chosen, they are an Exception to the Rule and should NOT be used as a basis for a "normal" PrC or "normal" abilities. They are the "Chosen" of Mystra, the goddess of Magic - immortal servant to the goddess. She grants them powers and abilities that no one else could ever dream of duplicating. Saying that a Chosen can channel Spellfire and cast spells should say NOTHING about what a standard Mortal can do.

Now as for Spellfire in 3E, here is what Sean K. says:

"FYI, there's no problem with other party members charging you up, but game mechanics prevent you from charging yourself up. To absorb, you need to use a ready action. And since you are reading for an event, you can't be casting a spell at the same time (you can only take one action at a time). Not even with haste. -- Sean K Reynolds"
http://www.seankreynolds.com

 

[kreynolds]

I was originally agreeing that there is no precident for a Spellfire Wielder/Caster.

I don't know who you were agreeing with then. It can't have been me. That was never my standpoint.

As for the Chosen, they are an Exception to the Rule and should NOT be used as a basis for a "normal" PrC or "normal" abilities. <snip>

It doesn't matter. I have never, not once, ever, seen this "rule" you're talking about. Until you provide it, I stand by my assertions.

Now as for Spellfire in 3E, here is what Sean K. says:

"FYI, there's no problem with other party members charging you up, but game mechanics prevent you from charging yourself up. To absorb, you need to use a ready action. And since you are reading for an event, you can't be casting a spell at the same time (you can only take one action at a time). Not even with haste. -- Sean K Reynolds"
http://www.seankreynolds.com

I fail to see your point. Sean is saying that "as is", you can't refuel yourself. The Chosen of Mystra template is an exception to the rule...and so its this prestige class. In fact, every prestige class is an exception to the rule. So, with that said, it doesn't matter what Sean said, as he wasn't talking about a prestige class.

One more thing; This is what makes Sean's info pointless to the discussion...

"An Adept can cast his own spells into himself to charge his spellfire. He may cast up to 4th level spells in this manner, and doing so requires a full-round action."

...note the _full-round action_ part. Casting a spell is usually a standard action. So, clearly, using Charge Fire is not the same as casting a spell. Since you're not casting a spell, it doesn't really matter _what_ Sean said, as you are using a class ability to absorb your own magical reserves into spellfire.

Anyway, it's lookin' good, kuroshidaku! Keep it up!

 

[kuroshidaku]

Ok, i had no intention to start up a flame war !

i think i'll change it to every other level for caster progression. The reason for the spell level requirement was just so it needs a high level to use, ie you need control over your spells to let them charge you, but it could easily be changed to know(arcane) 10 ranks or spellcraft 10 ranks. concentration should definately be a needed skill, probably at 8 ranks. There's no class skills cause i never got round to it, but the wielder class skills would work.

The reason i created this class was because i've got a sorceror player with the spellfire feat, and he saw no advantage to take the wielder feat cause it doesn't improve casting. The idea of the adept was to let them focus on their spellcasting, then interweave their spellcasting powers.

The charge spell feature spell levels were just guestimates. If in playing these prove problematic i may change them. You can only charge spellfire up to your maximum fire levels (i assumed this was obuous ).

Do you think the charge spell feature is overpowered?

Maybe if the charged levels only last a duration of 1 hour/spellfire adept level? this would limit this capability a fair bit, as you'd be forced to make the decision of spells over spellfire.

This class is not based on any books/characters. it's just a method of providing my players with what they want