[FRCS] ECL for Shade Template

[Thanee]

If you would allow a Shade (Template from FRCS) as a player character, what should the ECL be then?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Ok, question has been answered... should have looked into the errata...

FRCS p. 288 lists ECL for Shades as +2, Errata changes this to +5.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pax]

Ok, question has been answered... should have looked into the errata...

FRCS p. 288 lists ECL for Shades as +2, Errata changes this to +5.

Bye
Thanee

Hmm, I was thinking of house ruling it to 3 or 4, not 5 ... it's not really that powerful. *shrug* It is worth more than an ECL +2, possibly more than an ECL +3, but IMO, not more than an ECL +4 ... it's fairly comparable, IMO, to the power levels of the Half-Celestial or Half-fiend templates (a bit more powerful in darkness, but worth absolutely ZIP when not in darkness ...).

 

[gfunk]

but worth absolutely ZIP when not in darkness ...).

Considering they can adjust the ambient light *at will* this will hardly be a problem.

 

[Pax]

Considering they can adjust the ambient light *at will* this will hardly be a problem.

Reread the Shadow template entry in the FRCS. It has to already be "dark" for them to exhibit that ability.

IOW, not above torchlight / candle light / (single) lamp or lantern light.

Pop them in a Daylight spell, and unless they have non-template means of cutting the light levels back down (a spellcaster with a Deeper Darkness spell, for example) ... they're screwed out of EVERY benefit of the Shadow template, lock stock and barrel.

If they had those powers ALL the time -- IOW, if they had the innate ability to say "aw the heck with it, it's DARK, so I can do my neat stuff" -- then I'd peg them as ECL +7 to ECL +8.

But since there're a couple spells that'll remove their template abilities -- with no save, unless they flee, since you don't get a saving throw on behalf of the chair 5 feet away from you -- the template's not worth THAT much.

IMO, and, YMMV, of course. If GMs never throw daylight encounters, or never have brightly-lit indoor environments as part of their adventures ... then yes, the template is more powerful. But that's DM error, not template imbalance.

 

[gfunk]

It has to already be "dark" for them to exhibit that ability.

IOW, not above torchlight / candle light / (single) lamp or lantern light.

Good point, but this was a major problem in a one-shot adventure we ran with a Shade PC. What constitutes dark? And besides, since most adventures (IMC anyway) tend to be subterranean dark is almost a given.

 

[EOL]

Nevertheless it brings out the point that the power of a Shade Character is almost entirely up to the DM's discretion. How many dungeon crawls he does, how he rules on ambient light, what the PC's opponents do about the lighting situation, because when it's dark the Shade is very, very powerful, but when it's not those five missing levels just about make the race unplayable.

 

[Pax]

Good point, but this was a major problem in a one-shot adventure we ran with a Shade PC. What constitutes dark? And besides, since most adventures (IMC anyway) tend to be subterranean dark is almost a given.

The template defines this, actually. FRCS page 314, in the Shade Template's opening section (emphasis mine):

"Shade" is a template that can be added to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the "character"). It's type changes to "outsider." It uses all the character's statistics and special abilities as a starting point. In well-lit surroundings (a daylight spell, outside on a sunny day, or in a brightly lit room), shades have the exact abilities of the character. In darker surroundings, shades gain the following abilities:

So.

A Daylight spell, or brighter, will nerf a Shade. An encounter in daylight, on a "sunny day" either outdoors, or in (say) a greenhouse or the like, away from dense cover (i.e. out of a deep, virgin forest). Basically, anything brighter than one or two torches (or one or two Light spells, which cast light comparable to a torch) ... and the Shade loses their abilities.

I'd say, for standard adventuring, that should be about 1/4 to 1/5 of the time. IOW, without going out of his way, a GM can deny the player of a Shade PC all template benefits, every fourth or fifth fight.

...

All that being said, I absolutely DO agree, ECL +2 is way underpriced. There's precious little reason to NOT take the Shade template, at that price. At +3, there's little reason for a Sorceror not to take it (if only for that +2 Charisma, which is a DIFFICULT attribute bonus to find on a PC race). At +4, it seems pricey, expensive, a "gee, I dunno, 4 levels is kinda a lot" ...

... which IMO makes a +4 seem about right.

NOW ... if the GM is running a game that will almost exclusively be run in dark areas (RavenLoft, for example; or maybe purely underground), a +5 or even +6 might work. But normally ... I'd call those grossly overpriced, IMO.