Free puzzle: The room of runes

[Dausuul]

In general, I have found it's very difficult to "sell" a puzzle like this to players. Quite understandably, folks would prefer not to gamble on being able to guess the solution, so they look for a way around it instead. If you let them find one, your work on the puzzle is wasted. If you stop them each time they look for a bypass, they become rightly annoyed at being railroaded.

Moreover, this is a puzzle of the "Guess what I'm thinking" type. (Riddles also fall into this category.) Those puzzles are extremely tough to do in a way that doesn't leave players feeling, "How the #@*!$ were we supposed to know it was that solution instead of any of the five hundred other things it could have been?" You can see already that people have produced several plausible solutions in this thread. A different approach to puzzles is to create the puzzle with a clearly defined set of rules, then challenge the players to figure out how to apply those rules to solve the puzzle--"fox-goose-grain" is a simple example of this. Players will still bypass these if they can, but at least there is a sense that the solution is achievable by logic rather than telepathy.

I try to restrict the use of puzzles in general, and "guess what I'm thinking" puzzles especially, to bonuses rather than requirements. If you solve the puzzle, you get a nifty shiny thing, but if you don't solve it you're not roadblocked. You just don't get the nifty shiny thing. Ideally it should be set up so players who like puzzle-solving can crank away at it while everyone else gets on with the adventure.

 

[SnowleopardVK]

"How the #@$!$ were we supposed to know it was that solution instead of any of the five hundred other things it could have been?"

I like to listen to the thought-process of the players. If they logically come up with a reasonable solution with no apparent flaws based on the clues I've given, then I might secretly change the solution to match theirs. If they come up with something that should logically work then they deserve to pass. I wouldn't punish them just because I didn't realize my clues in any given puzzle could point to a different potential solution that also made sense.

You make a good point though.

 

[Dausuul]

I like to listen to the thought-process of the players. If they logically come up with a reasonable solution with no apparent flaws based on the clues I've given, then I might secretly change the solution to match theirs. If they come up with something that should logically work then they deserve to pass. I wouldn't punish them just because I didn't realize my clues in any given puzzle could point to a different potential solution that also made sense.

That doesn't necessarily solve the problem. Even if they hit on the right solution, the players may come out of it feeling like all they did was throw the dice and get lucky.

This is especially likely when the process involved several players throwing out different ideas, and the party coming to a grudging consensus on one of them as the most likely answer. At that point, you can't even fudge your way out. If you make Player A's solution into "the" correct one, that just means Player B (who advocated a different solution) is sitting there thinking, "How the #@$!$ was I supposed to know it was that and not mine?" And if you make Player B's solution correct, Player A is in the same spot.

I'm not saying one should never have riddles or "spot the pattern" puzzles. But I have found it's really tough to make them work well. IMO, the fact that a puzzle is "fudgeable" means it's badly designed. A well-crafted puzzle of this type should have a solution such that when you see it, you can tell at once it's correct and it can't possibly be anything else.

 

[SnowleopardVK]

That doesn't necessarily solve the problem. Even if they hit on the right solution, the players may come out of it feeling like all they did was throw the dice and get lucky.

I don't change it to give them success if they just guess and happen to hit an alternate answer that might also work. I have to hear a logical thought process that I think actually makes sense (and could work). And if that thought process really could work and in the end they end up solving the riddle with it, how are they to know that they didn't cleverly work out the solution I had in mind all along?

What's important is that they manage to work out a good solution, not that it's the one I was necessarily thinking of. But I don't award random guesswork.

 

[OnlineDM]

Thanks for the continued feedback, everybody. I hadn't realized this would end up being a discussion of puzzles in general!

Just to be clear, when I run this particular puzzle in my adventure, it's optional. If the PCs prefer to use skills to get through the challenge, they may do so. So, there's no getting stuck because you can't guess what the DM is thinking.

I'll admit that I thought this puzzle did fall into the category of "once you strike upon the solution, you know it's right." Clearly, I was wrong about that. Some folks here have struck upon "incorrect" solutions and felt confident; one person struck upon the "correct" solution and wasn't sure.

So, it's not a great puzzle. I'm okay with that.

 

[BriarMonkey]

I'd have to go with the good old fashioned 10' pole. Ideally iron shod. [grin]

I do think that whenever a puzzle is introduced into an environment, you have to be willing to be flexible. The players will think differently than their characters would think like (I know I don't think like a 19 Int Mage), and all of them will probably think differently than the GM.

And it is in that thought process that we see some of the disparities of the system - meaning that regardless of what a player does, the character has stats that can radically outshine the player. All of us typing here can come up with solutions and ideas, but would a character with a 17 Int come up with the solution much easier? How about a 19 Int, or a 22 Int? A player is more likely to grumble if he can't figure it out and his high Int'ed character wasn't given a chance, or allowed to affect the resolution.

Yeah, I don't use puzzles much. But when I do, I try to keep in mind the fact that the character may have a better shot at solving it than the player.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

After looking at the hints, my first thought was that each number represented a direction. The first two options are 1 and 8. I don't see an eight so I step on the 1 and then go right. That puts me on an 8. And ... from their it breaks down.

The next thing I'd probably do, assuming I have to solve the puzzle, is to try to gather more information by having someone step on some tiles and see what happens.

 

[Flatus Maximus]

After looking at the hints, my first thought was that each number represented a direction. The first two options are 1 and 8. I don't see an eight so I step on the 1 and then go right. That puts me on an 8. And ... from their it breaks down.

But it doesn't! If 1 = E, then 8 = NE...