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<blockquote data-quote="glass" data-source="post: 8708641" data-attributes="member: 12251">An average of 75 damage (with die on zero) is strictly worse than killed outright, but hardly &quot;much worse&quot;. An 11th level Wizard is probably dead either way if they fail the save (which is DC 17 so even with a ridiculous generous Dex they a 55% chance of failing, and it could easily be 80%). I don't know about you, but if it is going to kill me either way I'll take the better save odds (even if it is only 5% better and that is an extreme case).A martial has a decent chance of surviving the damage if they have not taken any damage already, but it does not take much preexisting damage to tip them into save-or-die, which again they are unlikely to pass unless they are Dex-based.And even if they survive the damage, they have still taken a bunch of damage and are closer to death. Neither version does anything at all on a successful save (the 3e version did), but successful save is the main failure mode of the 1e version and not rolling high-enough damage is the main failure mode of the 5e version.It occurs to me that this is mostly talking about its being cast at PCs, and a more relevant case would its being cast by PCs. But I do not have a 5e MM so I do not know how likely a typical 11th-level monster is to make their save or how many hit points they are likely to have so it will have to do).(Odd that it is a Dex save in 5e - I never noticed that before. I would have expected Con.)OK, if it is literally never used in the course of the campaign, it arguably makes no difference. As soon as it is used once, that is by definition a power boost (albeit a small one at that point). I am assuming you are no going to all this trouble for a house rule you anticipate never being used._glass.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="glass, post: 8708641, member: 12251"] An average of 75 damage (with die on zero) is strictly worse than killed outright, but hardly "much worse". An 11th level Wizard is probably dead either way if they fail the save (which is DC 17 so even with a ridiculous generous Dex they a 55% chance of failing, and it could easily be 80%). I don't know about you, but if it is going to kill me either way I'll take the better save odds (even if it is only 5% better and that is an extreme case). A martial has a decent chance of surviving the damage if they have not taken any damage already, but it does not take much preexisting damage to tip them into save-or-die, which again they are unlikely to pass unless they are Dex-based. And even if they survive the damage, they have still taken a bunch of damage and are closer to death. Neither version does anything at all on a successful save (the 3e version did), but successful save is the main failure mode of the 1e version and not rolling high-enough damage is the main failure mode of the 5e version. It occurs to me that this is mostly talking about its being cast at PCs, and a more relevant case would its being cast by PCs. But I do not have a 5e MM so I do not know how likely a typical 11th-level monster is to make their save or how many hit points they are likely to have so it will have to do). (Odd that it is a Dex save in 5e - I never noticed that before. I would have expected Con.) OK, if it is literally never used in the course of the campaign, it arguably makes no difference. As soon as it is used once, that is by definition a power boost (albeit a small one at that point). I am assuming you are no going to all this trouble for a house rule you anticipate never being used. _ glass. [/QUOTE]

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