Freedom of Movement and swimming
- Thread starter Nareau
- Start date
frankthedm
First Post
Depends on the DM
If a distintion is drawn between falling and other forms of forced changes of "where you are" and actuall movement, then yes.
My line of thinking goes, if the spell would let you walk through a web as if it were not there, why would it not let you fall through the web.
If a distintion is drawn between falling and other forms of forced changes of "where you are" and actuall movement, then yes.
My line of thinking goes, if the spell would let you walk through a web as if it were not there, why would it not let you fall through the web.
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frankthedm
First Post
Normal movement is walking, hustling or running on a solid surface. If the water is not impeding the swing of your weapon, not slowing you down while you walk on the bottom, why aren't you falling through the water? The resitance that allows one to swim is the same resitance that slows down a sword's swing.Nail said:
The spell does not say it gives you a swim speed = base speed, but some folks claim it does just that.
Modes of Movement
While moving at the different movement scales, creatures generally walk, hustle, or run.
Walk
A walk represents unhurried but purposeful movement at 3 miles per hour for an unencumbered human.
Hustle
A hustle is a jog at about 6 miles per hour for an unencumbered human. A character moving his or her speed twice in a single round, or moving that speed in the same round that he or she performs a standard action or another move action is hustling when he or she moves.
Run (×3)
Moving three times speed is a running pace for a character in heavy armor. It represents about 9 miles per hour for a human in full plate.
Run (×4)
Moving four times speed is a running pace for a character in light, medium, or no armor. It represents about 12 miles per hour for an unencumbered human, or 8 miles per hour for a human in chainmail.
Tactical Movement
Use tactical movement for combat. Characters generally don’t walk during combat—they hustle or run. A character who moves his or her speed and takes some action is hustling for about half the round and doing something else the other half.
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For those that desire it, the 3.0 FAQ says:
"What happens when a character who has received a
freedom of movement spell jumps or falls into water? My
DM seems to think that the character falls straight through
the water and goes “splat” on the bottom. My DM explains
that the spell eliminates all water resistance, which prevents
the character from swimming or floating.
While the DM is always right, he’s followed a faulty line of
reasoning here. It’s always a bad idea to use scientific—or
pseudoscientific—reasoning to adjudicate spells. In this case,
your DM has erroneously supposed that water resistance has
something to do with buoyancy. Buoyancy depends on the
water literally pushing something up toward the surface, and a
freedom of movement spell doesn’t prevent that any more than
it prevents a floor from pushing up against a character’s feet
and keeping him from falling through it. (You might not be in
the habit of thinking of floors as “pushing” anything, but that is
the way modern physics describes any object or body resting
on any surface; the object pushes down and the surface pushes
back with equal force.)
In any case, the freedom of movement spell (and its cousin
from earlier editions, the free action spell) has nothing to do
with eliminating water resistance or friction; it allows normal
movement and attacks even under conditions in which normal
movement and attacks are not possible, such as underwater or
when webbed, held, or entangled. Exactly how the spell
accomplishes that is unrevealed—that’s what makes it magic.
Your DM would have been on firmer ground (as it were) if he
had claimed that falling is a form of “normal movement” that
water usually prevents. That, however, is not the case. “Normal
movement” in water is swimming or walking along the bottom.
When a character under a freedom of movement effect enters
water, he makes a Swim check; if he fails, he cannot move, and
he sinks if he fails by 5 or more. Note that failing to make
progress or sinking are both “normal movement” in this
instance."
"What happens when a character who has received a
freedom of movement spell jumps or falls into water? My
DM seems to think that the character falls straight through
the water and goes “splat” on the bottom. My DM explains
that the spell eliminates all water resistance, which prevents
the character from swimming or floating.
While the DM is always right, he’s followed a faulty line of
reasoning here. It’s always a bad idea to use scientific—or
pseudoscientific—reasoning to adjudicate spells. In this case,
your DM has erroneously supposed that water resistance has
something to do with buoyancy. Buoyancy depends on the
water literally pushing something up toward the surface, and a
freedom of movement spell doesn’t prevent that any more than
it prevents a floor from pushing up against a character’s feet
and keeping him from falling through it. (You might not be in
the habit of thinking of floors as “pushing” anything, but that is
the way modern physics describes any object or body resting
on any surface; the object pushes down and the surface pushes
back with equal force.)
In any case, the freedom of movement spell (and its cousin
from earlier editions, the free action spell) has nothing to do
with eliminating water resistance or friction; it allows normal
movement and attacks even under conditions in which normal
movement and attacks are not possible, such as underwater or
when webbed, held, or entangled. Exactly how the spell
accomplishes that is unrevealed—that’s what makes it magic.
Your DM would have been on firmer ground (as it were) if he
had claimed that falling is a form of “normal movement” that
water usually prevents. That, however, is not the case. “Normal
movement” in water is swimming or walking along the bottom.
When a character under a freedom of movement effect enters
water, he makes a Swim check; if he fails, he cannot move, and
he sinks if he fails by 5 or more. Note that failing to make
progress or sinking are both “normal movement” in this
instance."
DreadArchon
First Post
Because this is so very not physics we're talking about. Sometimes physics can be a good basis for trying to interpret how a spell acts, but this isn't one of them. "Normal movement" in water is not walking, and at any rate, how would you justify that argument if it was?frankthedm said:
What happens if you cast Freedom of Movement on the Elemental Plane of Water or the Elemental Plane of Air? What's "Normal" for you then?
Edits for redundancy, because I was pretty much beaten to it.
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frankthedm
First Post
So... Can a Web Spell save{impede] a falling character who has freedom of movement cast on him?
Could that character climb that web spell?
Could that character climb that web spell?
frankthedm
First Post
The Faq DID include walking along the bottom as being normal movement.DreadArchon said:
Just to be clear, I am not trying to be obstinate here, I am more interested in defining Movement as in the D&D system. This has a few wide reaching implications with AOOs and attacks / abilties that cause falling, pulling, hurling and other things that move someone without using the term movement. [TK's Violent trust, Reverse gravity, being hurled by Awesome Blow and getting pulled into a improved grabber's square].
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frankthedm said:
Why not? Would you argue that a spider falls through a web, because it can move easily through one?
I think you are confusing "ignore something" with "ignore the effects of something." A character with freedom of movement who is wandering unhindered through a web is still burned if it is lit. Freedom of movement doesn't nullify all physical effects of web or entangle or water; it simply negates the effect on normal movement and attacking.
--Axe
