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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 1046051" data-attributes="member: 1656">Don't forget the Minotaur.In the 3E Monster Manual, he gets Huge Greataxe +9/+4 melee, Gore +4 melee.That's a BAB of +6/+1 with the axe, and a secondary natural attack at full BAB - 5 with the horns.So in the case of the Thri-kreen, I'd say the Guisarme would follow normal iterative BAB progression.&nbsp; The spiked shield would be a normal off-hand weapon attack.&nbsp; The claw would be at full BAB, as a primary natural weapon, and the bite would be at full BAB -2 as a secondary natural weapon with Multiattack.His off-hand weapons are all light (shield or natural), so a blanket MWF penalty of -2 would apply.&nbsp; This would definitely come off the guisarme and the shield, and following the precedent of the monk using a non-monk weapon and unarmed strike, I'd say take the -2 penalty on the claw and the bite as well.&nbsp; This is one of Spatula's grey areas, and the Monk and Minotaur examples aren't in complete agreement.&nbsp; The Minotaur isn't suffering TWF penalties at all for using a natural weapon in conjunction with its axe, while it's clear that a Monk does.&nbsp; I think I'd say that the Thri-keen could use just the guisarme and its bite attack without incurring multi-weapon fighting penalties, but as soon as it uses an &quot;off-arm&quot; to get an extra attack, the multi-weapon penalty applies to all its attacks in the round.So, my final breakdown:Guisarme +10/+5.Spiked Shield +9 (/+4 with IMWF)Claw +9 (/+4 with IMWF, again using the monk example of considering an unarmed strike an off-hand attack)Bite +7But I agree, there's grey in there <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />-Hyp.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 1046051, member: 1656"] Don't forget the Minotaur. In the 3E Monster Manual, he gets Huge Greataxe +9/+4 melee, Gore +4 melee. That's a BAB of +6/+1 with the axe, and a secondary natural attack at full BAB - 5 with the horns. So in the case of the Thri-kreen, I'd say the Guisarme would follow normal iterative BAB progression. The spiked shield would be a normal off-hand weapon attack. The claw would be at full BAB, as a primary natural weapon, and the bite would be at full BAB -2 as a secondary natural weapon with Multiattack. His off-hand weapons are all light (shield or natural), so a blanket MWF penalty of -2 would apply. This would definitely come off the guisarme and the shield, and following the precedent of the monk using a non-monk weapon and unarmed strike, I'd say take the -2 penalty on the claw and the bite as well. This is one of Spatula's grey areas, and the Monk and Minotaur examples aren't in complete agreement. The Minotaur isn't suffering TWF penalties at all for using a natural weapon in conjunction with its axe, while it's clear that a Monk does. I think I'd say that the Thri-keen could use just the guisarme and its bite attack without incurring multi-weapon fighting penalties, but as soon as it uses an "off-arm" to get an extra attack, the multi-weapon penalty applies to [i]all[/i] its attacks in the round. So, my final breakdown: Guisarme +10/+5. Spiked Shield +9 (/+4 with IMWF) Claw +9 (/+4 with IMWF, again using the monk example of considering an unarmed strike an off-hand attack) Bite +7 But I agree, there's grey in there :) -Hyp. [/QUOTE]

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