D&D 4E Fun to die in 4e?
- Thread starter (contact)
- Start date
Treebore
First Post
Irda Ranger said:
Thats fine as long as you don't have a problem with PC's dying. If you do then your campaign decisions are the problem, not the system.
I'm all for keeping characters alive, but the risk of death is what gets my adrenaline going. If I am in a game where the DM "doesn't like killing PC's" I am cool with that as long as they still let me die when the rolls, or my stupid decisions, call for it.
Mercule
Adventurer
I've long been a proponent of the idea that reward without real risk is no reward. It's boring and uninteresting.
The best campaigns are the ones where any PC could die and they occassionally come close. The worst are where you can't lose a PC (other than by player choice) or where no progress can be made because of the "instadeath" factor. This is part of the reason I hate the availability of the Raise Dead tree of spells -- death is hollow and meaningless in the long term.
I know one GM who outright states that PCs can't die in his campaign. I refuse to play with him, even though he has some cool ideas.
The best campaigns are the ones where any PC could die and they occassionally come close. The worst are where you can't lose a PC (other than by player choice) or where no progress can be made because of the "instadeath" factor. This is part of the reason I hate the availability of the Raise Dead tree of spells -- death is hollow and meaningless in the long term.
I know one GM who outright states that PCs can't die in his campaign. I refuse to play with him, even though he has some cool ideas.
Li Shenron
Legend
The funny thing is that those who start with "dying is no fun" end up often with making resurrection very easy, which in turn means death is going to happen much more often 
Henry
Autoexreginated
Doug McCrae said:
True, but extreme cases usually make good stories. (Ab3's stuff would fall under "WORST GROUP EVER" stories, not "too deadly gameplay" stories.)
On the other hand, how many "war stories" that gamers tell to one another involve beating the stuffing out of a monster, compared to loss of a character's life? In my experience, much, much fewer. To me, it comes down to not limiting "ways to die" so much as "opportunities to die." Moderation is key when it comes to everything from resurrections to "save or die" effects.
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
The secret of role-playing....
For most people:
Gaming=Gambling.
Gambling is fun, for many many people. Orders of magnitudes more people then role- play (in any form).
When you gamble, you bet, and often loose, money. Basically, you are taking a controlled risk, with the bet being the limit to the possible loss.
People like taking a little risk. It excites them.
RPGs: you build and identify with a charecter. Then you take risks with it. You not only have rewards, but also potential losses, like death.
Thats the secret of roleplaying: gambling with your charecter.
For most people:
Gaming=Gambling.
Gambling is fun, for many many people. Orders of magnitudes more people then role- play (in any form).
When you gamble, you bet, and often loose, money. Basically, you are taking a controlled risk, with the bet being the limit to the possible loss.
People like taking a little risk. It excites them.
RPGs: you build and identify with a charecter. Then you take risks with it. You not only have rewards, but also potential losses, like death.
Thats the secret of roleplaying: gambling with your charecter.
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
Well, that tears it:
Gameplay dictated character death is too videogamey!
Seriously, though, you can hardly compare the experience of dying in a first-person shooter, where the 'penalty' for death is losing the weapons it took you 30 seconds to collect and waiting a fraction of a second, and the experience of dying in a tabletop RPG, where the 'penalty' for death is potentially hours of being out of the game, potentially losing all the character development you've done to date, and, until true resurrection becomes available, certainly losing many hours worth of XP.
I'd be very curious how the 'entertainment' factor of death in Halo compares to the 'entertainment' factor of death in, say, a JRPG, especially if it's death at the hands of a random encounter toward the end of an hour-long dungeon with no save points. I've known plenty of people who have fun with the former, very few who have fun with the latter.
Gameplay dictated character death is too videogamey!
Seriously, though, you can hardly compare the experience of dying in a first-person shooter, where the 'penalty' for death is losing the weapons it took you 30 seconds to collect and waiting a fraction of a second, and the experience of dying in a tabletop RPG, where the 'penalty' for death is potentially hours of being out of the game, potentially losing all the character development you've done to date, and, until true resurrection becomes available, certainly losing many hours worth of XP.
I'd be very curious how the 'entertainment' factor of death in Halo compares to the 'entertainment' factor of death in, say, a JRPG, especially if it's death at the hands of a random encounter toward the end of an hour-long dungeon with no save points. I've known plenty of people who have fun with the former, very few who have fun with the latter.
MoogleEmpMog
First Post
Li Shenron said:The funny thing is that those who start with "dying is no fun" end up often with making resurrection very easy, which in turn means death is going to happen much more often
Really?
I've NEVER encountered this combination. Easy resurrection, in my experience, is a HALLMARK of "dying is fun and easy" - as exemplified, in electronic gaming, by first person shooters.
By contrast, almost low-death or no-death game I've played in outright banned resurrection. It simply was not an option barring extraordinary, artifact- or deity-level magic.
