Fun with Magic - Magic Jar and 20 life forces from 1-20 HD
- Thread starter Thanee
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shilsen
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Heck, it dislocates the target's life forceThanee said:Magic Jar is not mind-affecting. It doesn't affect the mind at all, it just dislocates it.
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Thanee
On a slightly tangential note, anyoen else think it's weird how Magic Jar doesn't have the evil descriptor, but Deathwatch (perfect spell for a healer to use) does?Well, in any case, does anyone think that a Mind Blanked character would show up on Magic Jar's targetting list?
What I am getting at is that if we imagine that Jar divines the existence of the life-forces around it by a method different than a (Divination) spell then you have a spell that functions in a quirky way. Whether that causes some sort of game-design imbalance is a different question; but certainly you have to look at spells that have quirks pretty thoroughly.
My assumption is that if you asked most DMs if Mind Blank *should* work against Magic Jar then they'd say "absolutely". But I think if you take the rules literally, then it is not clear. So I am curious whether we should back up and say that Non-Detection would protect you from being put in the Jar?
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You can do all sorts of good things with the Jar though. I could Jar a drug-addict and clean his body out while he rehabs in the big gem. ;-)
What I am getting at is that if we imagine that Jar divines the existence of the life-forces around it by a method different than a (Divination) spell then you have a spell that functions in a quirky way. Whether that causes some sort of game-design imbalance is a different question; but certainly you have to look at spells that have quirks pretty thoroughly.
My assumption is that if you asked most DMs if Mind Blank *should* work against Magic Jar then they'd say "absolutely". But I think if you take the rules literally, then it is not clear. So I am curious whether we should back up and say that Non-Detection would protect you from being put in the Jar?
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You can do all sorts of good things with the Jar though. I could Jar a drug-addict and clean his body out while he rehabs in the big gem. ;-)
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Thanee said:Last time I checked, magic jar was not a divination...
But don't forget, that you actually need line of effect, so it's something like a weird visual sense.
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Thanee
Agreed, according to the 3.5 SRD:
SRD said:
By the strict rules, spells and magic which hinder or prevent detection by Divination spells do not protect a creature from detection by the magic jar. However, I'd Rule 0 it and say that the life force detection function of the magic jar is akin to locate creature, and hence should be hindered or blocked as if it were Divination magic. It seems a fair enough call, and I don't think it unreasonable "nerfs" magic jar, particularly as compared to that other great puppet-master spell, dominate person.
Cheers, Al'Kelhar
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Thanee
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Erm, unless I read that seriously wrong in some way, the only thing you don't need line of effect for is to hop into or out of the magic jar from your own body.
Sensing and attacking life-forces requires line of effect.
Don't really see how this last sentence could only mean the "attack" but not the "sense".
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Thanee
Sensing and attacking life-forces requires line of effect.
Don't really see how this last sentence could only mean the "attack" but not the "sense".
Bye
Thanee
Well, because if the Jar visually "sees" then it should work like vision or darkvision (ie, being countered by Invisibility). If it smells people, it should work like Scent and so on. If it's a magical sense it should be countered by Non-Detection (or an Anti-Magic field?!)
Maybe it's best to think of it as a Blindsight ability. That's an (Ex) ability, which means it's not supressed by Anti-Magic for instance. Though, similar to Al'Kelhar, I was thinking of the Jar's detection ability as being like locate which would be supressed.
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