Gabe of Penny Arcade Slams the OSR

[Fifth Element]

It costs buttons or nothing to try out new ideas, which could feed into games and gaming but, no, lets just keep our little hamster legs working away at spinning the same old wheel.

Actually, it costs time and money to try out new RPGs.

And if you write "but misleading, personal attacks wtf is that about?", you should probably refrain from broad, personal attacks in that very same post.

 

[Odhanan]

I think "OSR" has become a useless acronym used just as much to derisively describe some sort of "cult" or "cabal" of old-schoolers than it actually refers to an umbrella of people with widely different takes on widely different types of vintage games and play styles (D&D and otherwise).

 

[nedjer]

Actually, it costs time and money to try out new RPGs.

And if you write "but misleading, personal attacks wtf is that about?", you should probably refrain from broad, personal attacks in that very same post.

In reverse order. There's a bit of a contradiction in the notion of a broad yet personal 'attack'. The points I make are demonstrably provable facts, which, as with my 'apples' comment last night are perceived by some players as 'personal' and 'attacks' because I'm being forthright and a proportion of players seem to develop a personal affiliation or ownership of certain types of play/ games. As you interpret my comments as a personal attack, please tell me which part was a) personal to you b) an attack and I can, perhaps, address your personal concerns. For example, is it or is it not the case that Dragon Age are releasing blood-drenched comics or that a full set of 4e covers 1000s of pages?

Is it or is it not a fact that parents, schools, teachers and libraries are so put off by the 'cult', vanilla 'Dark' marketing that tabletop RPGs appear on church membership and applications as a 'danger sign' when MW2 doesn't?

It simply does not cost much time or money to try out new systems. Particularly compared to mainstream Goliaths. Mouseguard is less than $20 last I looked. Version 1.37 of Treasure is completely free and there's a large sample of the Dresden Files. All three games are quick to learn and quick to play - but a bit short on nonstop three hour single battles.

Following from that, do you want tabletop RPGs to grow old, wither and die for want of new ideas and a couipel of afternoons spent getting ideas elsewhere instead of fighting another Chromatic Dragon with 57 underlings?

So, like are you not simply attacking new ideas when you reject them out of hand and claim you're being attacked without defining the nature of the attack?

 

[outsider]

It seems equally unlikely the Modern Warfare 2 kids will set aside the instantaneous blood splatting head shot to demonstrate their mastery of a 10,000+ page rule set.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least a couple dozen MW2 players that are active participants on these boards. I play MW2, as do about half of the D&D players I know locally. Both are mission focused team games with persistent characters which you can customize and advance, so there's some overlap.

Applying stereotypes to groups that include millions of people is unwise, whether it's MW2 players, WoW players, video game players, left handed people, or whatever.

 

[nedjer]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least a couple dozen MW2 players that are active participants on these boards. I play MW2, as do about half of the D&D players I know locally. Both are mission focused team games with persistent characters which you can customize and advance, so there's some overlap.

Applying stereotypes to groups that include millions of people is unwise, whether it's MW2 players, WoW players, video game players, left handed people, or whatever.

Seems a maybe selective answer but fair enough. There's an overlap but the scientific studies show a huge difference between the skill sets and 'entertainment' in say Mouseguard compared to MW2. There are positive elements to games like MW2 but there are also significant scientific concerns about the desensitizing and emotional impact of frequent exposure to 'headshot' games. If you, an adult, play MW2 with mates a couple of times a week Post Traumatic Stress Disorders seems highly unlikely. If a teenager playing in their room in 10 hour slots with strangers and low self-esteem . . . takes the role of a terrorist in an airport . . . ?

My categorisations may seem emotive but they're based on current scientific thinking and publication. Stereotypes are an outmoded approach to categorisation, which I would be unable to support with evidence.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Less heat in the discussions or the thread will be closed.

Thanks

 

[Umbran]

In reverse order. There's a bit of a contradiction in the notion of a broad yet personal 'attack'.

Hardly. "Personal" means "against the personage" in this context.

"All those people who like chocolate are stupid," is broad (many people) and personal (an insult against the persons).

I'm going to suggest you, and everyone else, cool down the level of rhetoric and vehemence, before someone says something they'll regret.

Don't expect further warnings, folks.

 

[outsider]

Never mind.

 

[nedjer]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGf82oCyLEo"]YouTube - The Clash - London Calling (Official Music Video) [720p][/ame]

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Seems a maybe selective answer but fair enough. There's an overlap but the scientific studies show a huge difference between the skill sets and 'entertainment' in say Mouseguard compared to MW2. There are positive elements to games like MW2 but there are also significant scientific concerns about the desensitizing and emotional impact of frequent exposure to 'headshot' games. If you, an adult, play MW2 with mates a couple of times a week Post Traumatic Stress Disorders seems highly unlikely. If a teenager playing in their room in 10 hour slots with strangers and low self-esteem . . . takes the role of a terrorist in an airport . . . ?

My categorisations may seem emotive but they're based on current scientific thinking and publication. Stereotypes are an outmoded approach to categorisation, which I would be unable to support with evidence.

Interesting, because I worked with a couple of the people who did research on the psychological and cognitive effects of FPS games, and I've never seen data that could justifiably be interpreted that way.

Everyone who behaved outside of social norms after gaming.... also behaved outside of social norms before gaming, though very slightly less so. The most alarmist thing you can take from that is that certain types of games might exacerbate a previously existing condition. Anything bigger than that is a huge and unfounded leap from what the data actually shows.

In the meantime, the act of playing an FPS game is actually very good for various motor and cognitive skills, in some ways similar to playing a musical instrument, in that the training actually generalizes to other tasks.