Game Breaker Spells - What are they?

[WhatGravitas]

I think they probably ought to do something serious about that one!

Yep. It also wildly unbalances dungeons against outdoor encounter, because the added direction is suddenly king. Fly would be fine, if it'd be "self only" (because flying mages are somewhat fitting, flying fighters... are superman) and/or much more limited in maximum altitude, i.e. you cannot fly higher than X feet, this would make deep crevices much more dangerous again, while allowing you to cross less deep pits and so on. And imagine a trap door triggered by presence (using magic): Suddenly you're muuuch higher and the spell ends.

Concerning teleport: My biggest beef with it is the "sudden" introduction of the spell. I'd rather have a shadow walk-esque spell on fifth level (because this makes a insta-travel spell to a adventure on its own, wandering through the shadow world) and put teleport (perhaps with plane shift folded into it) on a higher level and the teleport without error on the highest spell level (because appearing perfectly at one point sounds like the pinnacle of travel magic - and I wouldn't name it greater teleport).

Concerning all the spells that make skills effectively useless: I like the AE solution to that problem - they usually use a caster power check (caster level + stat mod), the same for remove disease and neutralize poison.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Fly is a good spell, too. And it also begs the question - how do you keep it, but remove the balance issues? (Maybe there should only be Overland Flight - no easy flying in tight quarters.)
It might also indicate a point where you move up the next tier of play... (from Heroic to Paragon)

These two seem to cancel each other out pretty well.

They cancel each other, but is it "pretty well"? It is to automatic and to all or nothing for my taste. It doesn't only cancel Dominate Person, but also Charm Person, Suggestion and many other enchantment spells, several of them not really game-breakers, and part of the "flavor" for some spellcasters (Enchantment specialist).

The next "game-breaker" here might be Mind Blank...

 

[frankthedm]

I'm torn, because on the one hand Fly is definitely a real game-breaker, but on the other hand it's just so frickin' awesome that it would suck if it was taken out of players' hands until super-high levels.

In combat flight makes a HUGE difference between the Have's and Have not's when it it comes to magic. Out of combat, it negates skill points and challenges. Spells that summon a flying carpet or turn the recipient's arms into wing s would be alright, but off the ground, no forced movement, no way to bring you down flight needs to go.

Teleport: Definitely need to be overhauled. The Teleports to a specified / specially prepared location is a good one. MUST have been to the area before is a darn good idea.

Anything that keeps The Game from sliding into the Comic Book Superhero Genre is grand in my book.

 

[Someone]

Teleport would be fine if it wasn't spot on precise - a margin of error of one mile or so would make wonders. In one campaing my players got an artifact that, for game purposes, allowed them unlimited teleporting, but they could arrive anywhere in 1 mile radius of the intended target (it also created a large storm - long story) I was a bit worried about how the thing could break the game, and had ready a couple ways to get rid of it if I needed to, but it wasn't neccesary: in fact, the artifact was less disruptive than the normal spell (which got prepared by the party's wizard despite they having the magic item)

 

[Szatany]

Discern Lies/Zone of Truth:

I dislike spells that give bonuses to anything. They should be more unique than overgrown Skill Focus . Maybe zone of truth is fine as a interrogation tool (after all, D&D isn't about torture), but should be somehow unusable in social situations.

Teleport:

I see few possible solutions.
1 - teleport allows you to move only to a space you can see. that limits it to a 20 or so miles outdoors , and prevents moving through walls
2 - teleport moves you to a willing person. That makes it a travel spell and a limited battle spell, but nothing else.
3 - teleport moves you to a waypoint, and there is a limited number of those across the world, that makes it a inprecise travel spell.

Speak with Dead:
Possible Fix: Not really one. Might in fact be okay, if you stick to the above limitations. The same as for Zone of Truth and Discern Lies might also apply here.

Possible fix: the victim tells what it wants to tell you. Or perhaps it shows you last minutes of its life, but everything is blurry and you cannot identify the killer, but can find something about him this way.

Save or Die spells*:
Possible Fix: See Disintegrate and Harm (deal massive damage), or Power Word spells (only targets with X HPs or less are affected)

I like that idea, we might get just that with Bloodied condition.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I dislike spells that give bonuses to anything. They should be more unique than overgrown Skill Focus . Maybe zone of truth is fine as a interrogation tool (after all, D&D isn't about torture), but should be somehow unusable in social situations.

The zone of truth could smell like rotting fish. That'd make it very noticible to cast in a public place.

 

[wayne62682]

Game breakers? I'll throw in a few more to the list:

Polymorph Any Object, Shapechange: Obvious reasons. These two spells are the definition of "broken beyond belief". Hell the entire Polymorph line is pretty broken if you use the spells creatively enough. PaO is just the worst.

Gate: Summon something that grants a wish, need I say more? This is the posterchild for why Wizards obliterate everything on the CO boards.

Wish: Controversial due to the fact the DM can screw you over no matter what you wish for, but given that you can wish for pretty much anything talented (read: tricky) players can make a simple-sounding wish that lets them break the game afterwards.

There are a few more I'm forgetting, I'm sure, but I'm too lazy to go dig through the CO boards at WotC and get a complete list. Needless to say I think that the designers for 4E should pay particular attention to the CO boards to find broken spell combos that need to be fixed and/or removed.

 

[Piratecat]

You forgot Find the Path.

 

[Carpe DM]

I have yet to run into a spell I couldn't handle. Old school Harm, or Frostburn's Shivering Touch are as bad as they get. And, I had to modify people's *responses* to Teleport (not the teleport spell itself) to make it socially inordinately dangerous to use in populated areas. (Teleport into the equivalent of the Vatican and all sorts of very, very bad things happen).

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement. But we know that there aren't game-breaking spells because the current game is by no means broken.

best,

Carpe

 

[Dragonblade]

I nominate Scry or any spell that allows you to see another place from a distance. Those are gamebreaker spells for me.

Teleport isn't so much a game breaker as it is a spell that kind of removes a lot of fantasy tropes like traveling through the trackless wilderness on horseback. Coupled with Scry it is definitely a gamebreaker.

Save or Die couple with Raise Dead/Resurrection bother me too. They add too much of a video game feel to the game.

Speak with Dead can be a gamebreaker only if the DM allows it. Simply have all murderers wear masks so that the victim cannot identify them even in death.