Game Pricing

[Wicht]

I know that if the publishers offered their products whole-sale (say %30-40 off) to the consumer, eliminating the middle man, I would pay the publisher direct and would likely buy more. I too get offended when I see publishers (coughWOTCcough) selling their own product online for more than I would pay from Amazon, Waldenbooks, or even Derek, all of whom offer me at least %10-15 off.

 

[RyanD]

yet ryan d. is ready to call the situation broken after only a year and a half

I don't know what you're referring to. I certainly don't think anything is broken - I think things are better today than they've been in 15 years in terms of the health of the RPG market.

That doesn't mean that things can't continue to improve. One of those improvements would relate to publishers charging more money for products that deserve higher prices, and another would be creating a whole new range of top-shelf products that can command higher prices than we've ever seen before.

Even if those two things happen, there will still be relatively inexpensive products on the market. Nobody is advocating that only high priced items get created - we're arguing that it's a mistake to continue pursuing a low-cost strategy that doesn't work as intended.

I'm advocating is the position that lower prices don't increase sales - there's no relationship between product price and sales within a quite large band of potential SRPs; thus, publishers should price at the high end, not the low end, of that band. A publisher would sell just as many units at $15 as they would at $12, so they should charge $15 and either increase product quality or increase profitability - but not charging $15 isn't earning them any benefit.


Ryan

 

[mmadsen]

I too get offended when I see publishers (coughWOTCcough) selling their own product online for more than I would pay from Amazon, Waldenbooks, or even Derek, all of whom offer me at least %10-15 off.

If a publisher offers its own products on-line for less than retail, no one will distribute or carry its product line.

 

[Wicht]

If a publisher offers its own products on-line for less than retail, no one will distribute or carry its product line.

Why? I know a number of people, not RPGers mind you, who refuse to buy online.

But what is the advantage of a company taking the time (and money) to sell their own product online and then charging more than anyone else?

 

[RyanD]

their own product online for more than I would pay from Amazon, Waldenbooks, or even Derek, all of whom offer me at least %10-15 off.

Traditionally, hobby game publishers have believed that having the infrastructure of the channel was worth the increased price consumers paid for product. Whether you believe that theory or not has a lot to do with how much value you get from your local game store, book store, or other retail outlet.

The thing I would ask you to consider is that at minimum, you should expect to pay between $5 and $7 an order for products you get from a publisher via the internet. You will never get product as cheaply as someone who buys in bulk (like a distributor), because there is a minimum cost associated with processing an order which cannot be gotten rid of. So, even if a publisher abandoned the channel and went direct to the consumer, you would still be paying a price including that overhead cost for fulfilment.

Furthermore, I would argue, that if a publisher were to abandon the channel and go direct, they would not be likely to reduce the price of their books down to the existing discount offerered to the channel - instead, they would more likely keep the price right where it is (since people have demonstrated a willingness to pay them), and just make more profit per book. So the net effect would be that you would not have a local game store (and therefore would have a harder time perhaps in finding new products from new publishers, or getting feedback in person from other customers and staffers about various products, or being able to get something on the spur of the moment as an impulse or emergency purchase, etc.), and you would still be paying the same price for the books you buy, plus you'll probably be paying a shipping & handling fee.

The only reason that "discount" retailers exist is that they are offered a substantial discount themselves from distributors and direct from publishers that is supposed to be used to create margin to offset costs and generate profits. Publishers cannot charge a discounter more than they charge a non-discounting retailer because doing so is illegal. Therefore, the only reason that discounters exist is that most of their competition does not discount. If that competition goes away, so does the "discount" advantage.

 

[Crothian]

Here's what gets me. I bought 5 books in thee past 2 weeks. All of them are what I consider good quality or better and I'm happy with all my purchases. But there is a little differnce in price.

Hardcover, 172pgs, $24.95
Softcover, 74 pgs, $16.95
Softcover, 64pgs, $16.95
Softcover, 64pgs, $14.95
Softcover, 208pgs, $21.95

You might notice that the middle 3 all together have less pages then the last one, yet any 2 of them is $10 more. So, I'm really not sure how these prices come to be.

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

buying from Amazon.com

Buying at Amazon doesn't hurt the manufacturer. it hurts the games retailer and distributor.

Yep. And that's who I want to hurt. They add NO value to me. None. Zip. I know which products I want, (I didn't need to look through the PH, DMG, or MM or d20 CoC to know that's what I wanted --- though I did borrow one or two books from the local library to play a few games to see if I wanted to return to the hobby)

Professional photographers a long time ago realized that their local shops added no value to the serious photographer --- they existed to fleece the average consumer out of a few bucks. So professionals overwhelmingly buy mail order. If you're serious about the hobby (and if you're not what are you doing here), then buying mail order to save money is the rational decision.

Anyway, all you have to do is to go over to say, www.rpg.net, to see how many people buy games they have no intention of playing, etc, and you'll realize that raising prices doesn't hurt the people who actively PLAY the product, it only hurts the collector. I have no sympathy for collectors, so I don't mind prices going up. If I need it, I can afford it, even at $50 a book (not to mention the 30% Amazon.com discount makes it much less than that!). If I don't need it, I don't need it, and can easily wait to buy it used.

The best thing for this hobby is for everyone to stop buying things they don't need and only buy stuff they are going to use. With increasing prices to come, that will soon happen.

 

[nopantsyet]

One of those improvements would relate to publishers charging more money for products that deserve higher prices, and another would be creating a whole new range of top-shelf products that can command higher prices than we've ever seen before.

I absolutely agree; and they must go together. I am willing to spend $40-50 on a high-quality, well-focused hardback. And I'll happily spend $25-30 on a quality softcover. I just spend $22.95 on Bluffside today and I feel like I got a deal. If a publisher comes out with a product that is better than the current top-shelf products, I say
bring it on!!! I'll pay and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

What I am not willing to spend my money on are cobbled-together collections of this PrC and this magical sword and that skill and another feat. My players are welcome to buy them and I'll be more than happy to rule any of it out of the game that is not high-quality.

However, if selling those books to my players allows those companies to put out high-quality DM-oriented books, I'm happy they are there.

I can't put a price on the enjoyment I've gotten out of RPGs since I was 8. I'm not rich, but I'd rather give my money to this industry than many others I can think of.

One final comment on a related note. I know I can get products cheaper from Amazon or wherever. Hell, the Borders has a surprising selection of WotC and d20 products. But I always buy from my local game store even though it costs more. Support your local gaming store! These are the places that keep gaming alive and available to new blood.

 

[R.X.DIEM]

Re: buying from Amazon.com (And packing my bong)

Anyway, all you have to do is to go over to say, www.rpg.net, to see how many people buy games they have no intention of playing, etc, and you'll realize that raising prices doesn't hurt the people who actively PLAY the product, it only hurts the collector. I have no sympathy for collectors, so I don't mind prices going up. If I need it, I can afford it, even at $50 a book (not to mention the 30% Amazon.com discount makes it much less than that!). If I don't need it, I don't need it, and can easily wait to buy it used.

Take another toke! I don't consider my Income to be quite as disposible as you do. I have a wife and children,and the rest that goes with that! To pay to much (willingly) for something is stupid. Not noble. And to punish players of these games just to "hurt" the collectors is irresponsible and assinine! Who are you to judge why someone buys something! And why do you care! I tell you what, move out of your parents basement.Get a job, some bills, some responsiblities. And I know for a fact your tune will change!

 

[Horacio]

Re: Re: buying from Amazon.com (And packing my bong)

Take another toke! I don't consider my Income to be quite as disposible as you do. I have a wife and children,and the rest that goes with that! To pay to much (willingly) for something is stupid. Not noble. And to punish players of these games just to "hurt" the collectors is irresponsible and assinine! Who are you to judge why someone buys something! And why do you care! I tell you what, move out of your parents basement.Get a job, some bills, some responsiblities. And I know for a fact your tune will change!

I was going to write exactly that when I read his message. Luckily you did it for me...