Game Pricing

[V-2]

Maybe I'm weird, but my own buying strategy works like this: I budget rigorously.

I hardly ever buy a supplement under 200 pages.

I buy all the gaming material (including core books) that's been out for over a year but has piqued my interest only now on ebay or otherwise used. This takes a supreme exertion of willpower, which I possess in abundance. Yesterday I got me a beaten up store copy of a certain game called Over the Edge (1st edition) for 15 bucks.

OTOH I would pay any price at all for "top shelf" stuff that's coming out now. If I was campaigning in the Realms I would pay $60 for FRCS. A game called Mechanical Dream (368pp, hardcover) sells at $35 right now--I'd pay $70 to get it. Same would go for Tribe 8 if I couldn't get it cheap on ebay already.

In short, from my perspective I agree with Ryan and would actually recommend the "top shelf" strategy for smaller publishers as well: Shell out one substantial, unforgettable, 300pp+, must-have-or-I-go-nuts hardcover a year--a solid campaign world, followed by a HUGE adventure collection, a HUGE creature catalog, etc.

But I guess the temptation to cash in on splat books is too great... though I'd be curious to know if those actually do make a big profit.

 

[JohnNephew]

I guess what I'm saying is that publishers better make sure its a type A product if they are gonna charge high prices.

Something to consider is that underpricing leads publishers into a sort of "publish or perish" conundrum. If you're not getting enough money from each sale, then you have to make it up on volume. If you can't make it up on volume per title (because, say, there are a lot of titles out in the market), then you have to make it up on the number of titles. The result is that you try to put out as many titles as possible, devoting fewer resources to each, which has the predictable effect.

Publishers charging more but putting out fewer titles should in theory result in more "A" and "B" types on the market, and fewer "C"s. Especially if consumers are more wary of "C" books, due to their cost. (It's easy to spend $10 on a lark, harder to justify risking $40 if you don't think the book is going to be what you're looking for.)

 

[Lady Dragon]

That is Absolutely true John when a book is priced at $40 unless it is a big name book your going to look at it real close before you buy it.But if its a fantastic product it will sell even at that price if its not then it won't.Fairly simple I think.

I also think company reputation and style also play a part in sales.There are certain companies that I would automatically buy a $40 hardcover from other I would have to hear great reveiws on to give them a chance.

By the way I'm really looking forward to Occult lore I think it might be an A type Product I plan on purchasing it.

 

[R.X.DIEM]

You people slay me

I keep reading these posts to get more familiar with the games that I like and the people that make them. I have learned an awful lot of both. I am greatful that there is a place like this so others can do the same. But sadly, I have learned that (IMO) some people are, really very much remove from the average run-of-the-mill gamer. And futher more I feel that many other people are in part compromising some of their true feeling about this industry just to( please forgive the expression) kiss the Gaming Gods butts. This issue on Pricing is a very good example. I don't think anyone disagrees that if prices have to go up, do to the needs of the industry,well, they have to go up. Many people(still not being heard by the Gods) feel that there should be some justfication and perhaps some better descions being made by the publishers before you make sweeping price hike. Here's a quote from you know who. " At a minimum, to me, that means a product with an SRP of more than $100 that you'd die to own, fantasize about owning, are jealous of those who own, and will sacrifice other areas of your disposable income expenditures to get. (And after it's been proved to be a viable market at $100, I want to see it tested at $200, then $300, etc. until we find out where the ceiling really is.) ". I believe this is a excellent example of people making poor descions and alienating the averge gamer. With that kind of thought your average gamer will be shone that they really don't matter to the Gaming Gods. That only the true believers and hard core collectors are most important. And It's not really about budgeting my " gaming allowence". I am active in my gaming community. I know all the gaming store owners personally and have from time to time worked at several of them part time. I don't know any of them that would be willing to take a risk with such expensive and limited product. One or two may sell but thats it. These stores make ther money on sure fire bets. Comics, Card games, Warhammer, action figures and related stuff then RPGs. Pretty much in that order. And besides all of this, what could you possibly put in such a product and make sure it's not obtuse and ridiculous. The "ceilling" is either at one of two places depending on were you stand. Either above your head or below your feet. Depends on how you look at it. I enjoy gaming very much. And I do appreciate and respect all of the wonderfully talented and imaginative people that have made gaming such a blast. Kudos to all. But of the few that believe that they have reached GAMING GODHOOD, please don't forget the real people that put you there. It was all of us gaming geeks not just a select few Butt polishers. Apollogizes to any affended

 

[spacecrime.com]

Yep. And that's who I want to hurt.

Fair enough. If game retailers have no value to you, that's cool with me. However, I think you'll find that we do have value to your favorite publishers -- and it's their opinion that matters on this issue.

Game distributors and retailers handle the vast majority of most publishers' sales. The system has problems, but we sell large quantities of product fairly quickly for publishers. If the publishers had to do all of this themselves, they would sell fewer products at a much higher cost.

Now, it is certainly possible that publishers could devise a system that works better than the current one. Depending on what the next ten years of information technology look like, it may even be likely. To date, however, every publisher that said "we can do it better without retailers" has found out that selling only to the consumer meant shrinking sales and a constant upward spiral of costs.

The Wizards of the Coast retail stores lost 46 million dollars (on just a hundred million in sales, even) over the last 2 years, even though WotC had three of the four hottest products in gaming. They're great publishers, but they're terrible retailers! That's why they deal with distributors and retailers -- they'd cut us out if they could, but the simple fact is that we do the job of getting their products to the consumer better than they do.

You don't like retailers? Fine. Feel free to consider this post a polite invitation to kiss my scrawny fish-white booty. But even if you never darken the door of a retailer again, game retailers are one of the reasons you actually have a product to buy. Get rid of us, and you're getting rid of just about every publisher in the business as well, so have a very nice day.

cheers,

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Does anyone have theory on why $10 for 32 page BW adventure is about right, and $40 for 320 page full color hardback is too expensive? Of course, one is less likely to buy the $40 book on impulse, but the values are IMO much better in terms of content / $.

I'm asking this because in my mind the FRCS is the single best RPG purchase I've made, and it cost me over $40 here in finland. (Closer to $50 than to $40).

Because some people really can only afford to spend $10. I don't care how great a value something is, if you don't have the money, you don't have the money. Many people have to decide between gassing up the car and paying the electric bill this week instead of next. Some of the responses to this have been "then don't play RPGs if you don't have the money!" My response is: I hope you go through some hard economic times to give you some perspective. What, people of lower incomes should be frozen out of RPGs? A subtle example of the class system at work.

Y'know, RPGs and video/computer games aren't that similar. Sure, you pay a lot for a game for Playstation 2 or a computer, but the console or computer takes the place (in many cases) of other people. With RPGs, you need to have other folk in order to play. It's ironic that a type of game based almost completely on the cooperative use of imagination - RPGs - should require such expensive add-ons to play.

 

[spacecrime.com]

But sadly, I have learned that (IMO) some people are, really very much remove from the average run-of-the-mill gamer.

I would be very curious to know what you consider the "average run-of-the-mill" gamer -- and what information you base that on.

(edit: hit "send" mid-post, grr)

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: You people slay me

snip text block

A friendly suggestion - dividing up such large blocks of text into paragraphs makes it far easier to read, and far more likely that it will be read.

 

[JohnNephew]

Re: You people slay me

I believe this is a excellent example of people making poor descions and alienating the averge gamer. With that kind of thought your average gamer will be shone that they really don't matter to the Gaming Gods.

What if the average gamer is already well take care of? Consider, honestly, that the AVERAGE gamer (and there are millions of them!) only needs the PH, and maybe the MM and DMG. That's it. People on the high end of "average" might subscribe to Dragon or Dungeon, which offer value for your money that no small press publisher can compete with, period; people on the low end might not own ANY books, and just make due with a shared PH at gaming night.

The problem is that everyone is trying to appeal to the average gamer -- and failing, because it's clear that the average gamer DOES NOT NEED TO BUY ANYTHING MORE AGAIN EVER. Perhaps one can appeal to the "average" by giving away your products to them for free, because they have no need to buy anything. That does not seem to me to be much of a business plan, and even then it's tough. (E.g., the average gamer has never downloaded any one of the many free PDFs from any D20 publisher website!! I'll bet all the downloads of all the D20 PDFs in existence, available from anyone besides WotC, do not add up to 10% of the sales of the 3E PHB.)

On the other hand, there may be a market in selling products to the UNUSUAL gamer, that is to say, the one that has money and is interested in spending it! Therein lies a business plan. To make the plan work, you have to charge the right amount of money.

It may be that publishers, thinking they are appealing to the average gamer, have actually only been selling to the unusual gamer -- and fundamentally shortchanging themselves because they misunderstand what their market really is.

The unusual gamer may be very interested in that $100 cool-enough-to-die-for product, which no one has ever offered her because they were too busy trying to kiss up to the vast pool of average gamers who simply will never want their offerings at any price.

Something to think about.

-----

Different topic: Lady Dragon, thanks for the vote of interest in Occult Lore. I hope we live up to your expectations!

 

[spacecrime.com]

Does anyone have theory on why $10 for 32 page BW adventure is about right, and $40 for 320 page full color hardback is too expensive?

As I understand it -- and this is based more on reading smart people writing about business than my own limited opportunities to test what they say -- there's two important factors. First, people aren't nearly as rational about price as they think they are. Second, most people see prices as broad bands rather than specific calculations.

Price something in the $5-15 range, for instance, and most people see it as an impulse purchase and don't think very hard about it. $20-30 may be a band, $30-50 may be a band, etc.

Where things get tricky is that it's hard to tell where the band is for most of a given group of potential customers. How people think about purchases is pretty clear -- figuring out what price points usually put them in which mode is a very hard art to master.

yours,