Blue Orange
Gone to Texas
Older versions of the game had retiring as a feudal lord (0e, 1e) or divine ascension (BECMI, 2e, 3e) as a sort of 'win condition' after which you retired your character.
I didn’t say you weren’t playing a game. I said you weren’t playing that particular game - but instead something similar to it.
I’m not redefining what game means. I’m simply stating what it does mean.So, if you aren't playing chess to win, you're playing some other game - let us call it meta-chess.
What are you playing if you aren't playing chess to win, but also aren't playing meta-chess to win? Meta-meta-chess?
At some point, you have to have a game that doesn't have win conditions, or this becomes meta all the way down, which is ridiculous. Or, we should realize that redefining what the game is isn't helpful, and instead recognize that whehter you're actually playing to rech the win condition, if any, is not definitive.
Ah, so, there's no such thing as D&D, because everyone's playing different games the moment one thing differs? This isn't a useful framework.I’m not redefining what game means. I’m simply stating what it does mean.
As an example - in Starcraft back in the day you would often see no rush 10 minutes lobbies. The players agreed to not attack each other for 10 minutes. That’s a different game than normal Starcraft.
how many agreed upon rules changes before it’s a different game? 1 is all it takes.
I’m not redefining what game means. I’m simply stating what it does mean.
how many agreed upon rules changes before it’s a different game? 1 is all it takes.
The concept in the OP seems to me distinct from game theory. My understanding is that it relates to a theory advanced by a professor of history and literature of religion. My current reading of the OP is thatI wasn't sure what the "game theory" was that is being referred to in the OP. Some posts - eg referring to the prisoner's dilemma - have made me wonder whether we're meant to be thinking of game theory in that sense.
If so, before we even start talking about single-play vs iterated, and whether the number of iterations is known in advance or is open-ended, where are the pay-off tables? And what preferences are under analysis - just those that are defined by the logic of play (eg a preference to win combats my PC is part of), or all the preferences that a player brings to the table (eg maybe I have a reason to throw the chess game because that way my opponent will buy me lunch)?
Also: it's certainly possible to reason about payoffs in an open-ended series of iterated plays.
The idea that for something to be a game requires win conditions is absurd on its face. There’s a raft of games without win conditions.
Catch. Tea Party. House. Tag. Hide and Seek. Truth or Dare. I Spy. Pattycake. The floor is lava. Follow the leader. Keep away. Ding dong ditch. London bridge. Telephone. Jump Rope.
The Dozens is a game. There are no points and you play until the other person quits...then someone else joins. And you play until one quits. Then someone else joins. And you play until someone quits. You repeat this until no one wants to play anymore. Or the streetlights come on and you all run home.
Make Believe is a game. It’s literally what we’re talking about, only we dress it up and make believe it’s not what we’re doing. There are no points or win conditions.
To conclude that a game must have win conditions is to ignore the definition of the word game.