GAMING FRONTIERS: A $20 magazine! Are they nuts?

[bondetamp]

17.95.

It is an easy question, really.

Well, for that money I could get several kilos of good quality meat that I could devour raw while dancing naked down my city's main street.

Can Gaming Frontier supply me with that level of fun and/ or nutritial value?

 

[JohnNephew]

To those who say "Im glad they are trying something new and brave" - Have you no concept of the way the real world works?

I know virtually NO ONE who actually wants to read about 10 different d20 systems at once.

There's a big difference between "Virtually no one" and "no one." It's fair to say that, in terms of the total D&D players out there, virtually none have ever bought one of our Penumbra D20 books. However, as it happens, the difference between "virtually none" and "none" is enough for us to run a business. Lacking actual sales figures, I would not personally leap to the conclusion that I know the facts better than the people who actually have the numbers at their fingertips. Perhaps your mileage varies.

As for the real world -- nah, not really. I've spent my entire professional career cocooned in the game industry, so all that real world stuff is just strange and baffling to me. I just rely on rolling dice and asking my magic eight ball for all decisions.

The people shouting out encouragement to GF are the same people who SAY they will buy it and then NEVER do. The few that DO end up buying it won't amount to any significant percentage. The direction and pricing strategy behind GF is seriously misguided, to put it gently. Anyone with any business sense in the industry (or outside the industry, for that matter) knows it will flop, and probably soon, barring a major miracle or endless bankroll.

You speak with considerable certainty. Which distributor do you work for, and what is your print buying and publishing experience, such that you know what percentage of people buy the magazine, what the total figures are, and how the revenues generated compare to the costs of the magazine? I'd love to see you roll out a spreadsheet to prove your allegations. To be honest, you just sound like someone who wants to get your stuff for cheaper. (In which case, look on eBay! I'm sure used copies will be there for a fraction of cover price.)

Maybe you guys are right and they'll fail horribly. Personally, I've watched "anyone with business sense" boldly declare that, for instance, Magic: the Gathering was going to flop in a hurry. In the meantime, it's their investment, their risk, and their reward if their efforts work. Given that other formulas for magazine-format publishing have failed consistently, I stand by my praise for their willingness to try a different approach. Progress rests on people who are willing to challenge assumptions -- especially failed assumptions.

 

[bondetamp]

I wish I had written what you wrote instead of what I wrote.

Maybe I had come off as less of an idiot, then.

 

[Mystic Eye]

Here, Here John. Keep standing up as the voice of reason. GF may not make it but, and no offense Kantrip, I often times think you start these threads to get a rise and I don't feel that is all that cool. You will always have to do this at the expense of another.

I too would like to see what John is asking for regarding spreadsheets and experience. You might be spot on in your estimation but you do speak with tremendous certainty, like someone with 20 plus years of gaming industry experience. Do you have that? I honestly don't know. But even with what experience I do have I do not know with certainty the fate of GF so I doubt many do. Well, maybe Robert Williams.

John is right, there is a massive difference between virtually no one and no one in this business.

I really don't like these "bashing" threads much and try to stay off them as much as possible. Bad karma and all. But I think that people like Kantrip and a few others not giving GF and the team of united play test enough credit. They are trying to bring something cool to d20 and not really charging all that much for the quality of the production when you compare it to the costs.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I give them credit for trying. It's just lamentable that I can't afford right now to see those efforts.

 

[Adlon]

Well, as an owner of both volumes of GF, I can say with certainty that they are indeed worth the $17.95 price tag.

How do I know? Because I OWN them, and have read through them from front to back.

Its obvious that many detractors of the publication simply cannot afford to take a chance on a potentially good product, but rather spend their money on a 'certain thing', as if such an entity truly exists.

Bottom line, is, if you don't have the publication on YOUR shelf, and have read through it from front to back, in its entirety, then you are NOT qualified to bash a product and its value or lack of.

Kantrip, you've done this twice now, recently, bashing product you dont own, and havent read through for the content. I just wish your comments about products were educated ones.

As to the messageboard being a good barometer: BAH. How can one imply that, when the biggest forum for d20 (THIS BOARD) has a whopping 4500 some odd members. That number PALES in comparison to the millions who play the game. Us 4500 people dont add up to more than a slow day at the bookstore.

Bottom line, is, I see the biggest emotion here is the money. If you're on a budget, and must judiciate which suppliments you need for your game, then a specialized accessory like GF is most likely not for you.

But dont go decrying its doom just because you cant afford it. Especially if you've never bought a copy, read it, and came to educated conclusions.

I posted a similar comparison SOMEWHERE, on SOME BOARD, but I cant remember, so here goes:

Whats your time worth? Hourly. I like to equate mine to about $20 per hour.

And how long does it take to make a balanced ORIGINAL PrC from scratch?
How long for say 3-5 balanced ORIGINAL spells?
Same question for Magical Items. How long to create?

How about a stat blocked NPC? THERES a gut buster.

So, for me, to be able to get 1-2 PrC's, 3-4 Magic items, some spells, well, theres my $20 per hour. Its covered. Past covered.

And I prefer to read publications that have less advertisements.

And I can afford it. And isn't that the real issue here?

Out of the millions who play the game, the majority, in most probabilites, cannot afford the GF digest. But, their target market CAN afford it.

Just dont anyone go about bashing/constructive criticizing out of ignorance. BUY a copy, read it. Come to an EDUCATED opinion.

Then, if you dont like it, you know exactly WHY.

And it wont be just because the publication costs $18, and you didnt give it a chance.

Or, dont ever buy it, and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

Sorry, but ignorance just wears my patience.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I read through GF #2 at the store and determined it was not worth anywhere near the cover price to me. I'm not going to BUY and OWN something that I have looked at and disliked. That's stupid to suggest I spend $20 to read it cover to cover before forming an opinion. I read a couple articles of interest (Spycraft) and looked at the rest of the info and said "What the hell is this crap? I've never heard of these companies, I have no interest in their products, I can't use this material and I'm not paying $20 for a couple articles when I can get so much better value for my dollar elsewhere." The focus is too scattershot. The price is too high. It is overproduced. It is an interesting experiment, but one doomed to failure.

Reading between the lines of industry people posting here spells out their stance quite clearly, IMO:

"We like GF. We will take advantage of this outlet to plug our products for free and why not? GF's people should be congratulated on trying a new way to sell an RPG magazine; we wish them luck. But we will be very surprised if GF lasts."

Have I misinterpreted what they are saying? I don't think so.

 

[hong]

(. . .)

The focus is too scattershot. The price is too high. It is overproduced. It is an interesting experiment, but one doomed to failure.

So?

(On a more productive note: can anyone enlighten me if GF is available here in sunny Austria, the land down under?)

 

[Ashtal]

Kantrip, I've had enough. I've watched this highly bashy thread for a while now. Please drop it. You've said your piece, time and again, that you don't like the product. Okay. We gotcha. Now put it to rest.


Ashtal