D&D 4E Gaming, Gamers, Dollars, and 4E

[Xyxox]

I look at tabletop gaming and the economic realities involved and wonder where the direction will be.

I'm a gamer. I like a plethora of games, not the least of which is D&D. I, like all gamers, have a finite sum of money to spend on my hobby(ies). That sum increases and decreases with the pressures of real world economics as well as real world time constraints.

I'm looking at the direction of a few of my favorite games.

#1, because the upgrade is coming much sooner, is Warhammer 40K. Probably not the most popular game on ENWorld, but still one I like and one which gives me a satisfaction from the modeling aspect. For those who do not know, Warhammer 40K will be taking a dramatic direction in Octoiber with the release of a rules set called Apocalypse. What makes Apocalypse so different is the scale of battles. Apocalypse is designed to allow any player to field every model they own in epic battles of huge scales. It's also a marketing scheme to sell large sets of models at a cut rate per model price. An example of the scales will be an entire Space Marine Battle Company which will include 106 Space Marines and nine vehicles. This is expected to be priced at $450 (which would be on the order of ~$700 if purchased separately). For those in the know, you could not field a Space Marine army under the existing 40K rules as it's too big, but under Apocalypse it's 100% legal plus there are bonuses for fielding a full battle company of Space Marines. Add to this other large army sets at cut rate prices (though no boxed set costing as much as the Space Marines) and my gamer instinct is peaked. I'm interested in several armies, but my finances are finite, so purchases will be dependent upon interest in the new rules.

#2 Warhammer Fantasy Battle - This is another game I love and the newest edition is slowly upgrading existing armies. I have an Orc Army and an Empire Army. I've a partial Dwarf Army and may build that up as well. High Elves are due for a makeover in November and that could also gain my interest, plus the Vampire Counts have always been an interesting army to me and if they get a makeover early next year, I will definitely be adding them to my list.

#3 D&D - A perennial favorite, the new rules will determine my direction here. I have always loved the game, though the minitatures selection since 3E has been less than stellar in my opinion primarily due to the sales and marketing model. I like to know what I'm getting when I buy miniatures (as evidenced by my love of the GW lines). Knowing this brings me to two games I'm very interested in but have yet to make the plunge...

#4 & #5 Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing and Dark Heresy (Warhammer 40K RP). These games have my interest right now and may end up with my D&D dollars simply because I have so many miniatures for both already in my collection.

So there I am with my favorite games and potential future directions. 4E has some competition for my gaming dollars, especially with huge armies fielded in Apocalypse combined with the option of re-purposing those minis for role playing games as well.

What I'm wondering is, how are personal gaming economies coming into play with ENWorlders out there and do others also have a potential of letting D&D go completely by the wayside with 4E as I do? I admit, the D&D Insider component sounds intriguing and could keep me involved with the game as I would use virtual minis, but my gaming dollars are finite and I can spend on only so much material.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

Interesting thread, and one I've been thinking about myself.

So there I am with my favorite games and potential future directions. 4E has some competition for my gaming dollars, especially with huge armies fielded in Apocalypse combined with the option of re-purposing those minis for role playing games as well.

While I'm still an avid D&D player, I'm not so much a consumer anymore. Will 4E change this?

Maybe, but probably not. There are things I will buy and have budgeted money for ("City of Brass", "Shackled City", "RAR", etc.), but I find my D+D purchases have been declining over the last few years, both due to a lack of quality (IMHO), and other things competing for my income. (The only thing I bought on a "Whim" from WotC in the few months was "Complete Champion", based on the concept, the art, and a flip-through at my FLGS.)

And? Not only am I an RPG'er, I'm also a reader, a video-gamer, a card-gamer, a board-gamer, a comic-collector, and a DVD buyer. All competing for my dollar.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

While I'm still an avid D&D player, I'm not so much a consumer anymore. Will 4E change this?

I'm not so much of a consumer anymore - I think my 4E buying habits will reflect that; I think I'll be more discerning and quality focused than in the early 3E days. I don't game much apart from D&D, but I do buy DVD's and PC and PS3 games.

 

[Khairn]

I currently play 2 MMORPG's. The first is personal (EQ2) and the 2nd (WOW) is a way to adventure with friends that I no longer live close to. Due to schedules and time zones, the easiest way to stay in touch (and have some adventuring fun) was an MMORPG. In addition to that I usually purchased a couple WotC books each month (up until last April anyway) and then maybe another book (IK, Midnight, Exalted etc) or some mini's depending on my mood. In April I switched to buying other games and I've been really impressed with the gaming goodness I've found, but the number of books have remained the same.

When I look into the total cost of 4E, I realize that something will have to go in order for me to pick up the game. So its not just a matter of impressing me enough to be interested in the new edition ... 4E and the DDI will have to impress me enough to give up something else. Which in my mind is a much more difficult challenge.

If they don't impress me enough, I'll move on to other games or remain with 3.5. One of the very best things about the last few years on the RPG side of things is the outstanding assortment of new games and creative companies vying for my gaming $.

WotC are far from the only game in town, and (in my eyes) "What's good for WotC ..." does not automatically equate to being "good for me" or "good for the industry", as it has been in the past.

 

[Xyxox]

Not only am I an RPG'er, I'm also a reader, a video-gamer, a card-gamer, a board-gamer, a comic-collector, and a DVD buyer. All competing for my dollar.

I buy DVDs and am an avid novel reader. I read somewhere between 50 and 100 novels every year. I've noticed a lot of the Black Library WFB and W40K based novels are catching my attention, too.

So really, WotC is vying for my total entertainment dollar and want a piece of that pie. It's going to depend upon the bang I get for the buck.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I never was a huge D&D consumer. I might buy 2 D&D books a year tops (1.5 average), outside of my initial investment in the 3e core books (I use the 3.5 SRD rather than buying the books).

I use to play a couple collectible games, but quit those because I didn't feel it was worth the investment and I got disguted by rules lawyerism taking advantage of holes in the game. I've also become sickened with collecting things in general.

I use to love playing Axis&Allies but the main people I use to play that with either moved away or are too busy now to organize a meeting.

So as far as my non-computer gaming goes it's D&D, Shadowrun 4th edition (which I'd love to buy more books for but so few come out), chess and any other random RPG someone happens to want to try out in my group.

 

[Treebore]

I look at tabletop gaming and the economic realities involved and wonder where the direction will be.

I'm a gamer. I like a plethora of games, not the least of which is D&D. I, like all gamers, have a finite sum of money to spend on my hobby(ies). That sum increases and decreases with the pressures of real world economics as well as real world time constraints.

I'm looking at the direction of a few of my favorite games.

#1, because the upgrade is coming much sooner, is Warhammer 40K. Probably not the most popular game on ENWorld, but still one I like and one which gives me a satisfaction from the modeling aspect. For those who do not know, Warhammer 40K will be taking a dramatic direction in Octoiber with the release of a rules set called Apocalypse. What makes Apocalypse so different is the scale of battles. Apocalypse is designed to allow any player to field every model they own in epic battles of huge scales. It's also a marketing scheme to sell large sets of models at a cut rate per model price. An example of the scales will be an entire Space Marine Battle Company which will include 106 Space Marines and nine vehicles. This is expected to be priced at $450 (which would be on the order of ~$700 if purchased separately). For those in the know, you could not field a Space Marine army under the existing 40K rules as it's too big, but under Apocalypse it's 100% legal plus there are bonuses for fielding a full battle company of Space Marines. Add to this other large army sets at cut rate prices (though no boxed set costing as much as the Space Marines) and my gamer instinct is peaked. I'm interested in several armies, but my finances are finite, so purchases will be dependent upon interest in the new rules.

#2 Warhammer Fantasy Battle - This is another game I love and the newest edition is slowly upgrading existing armies. I have an Orc Army and an Empire Army. I've a partial Dwarf Army and may build that up as well. High Elves are due for a makeover in November and that could also gain my interest, plus the Vampire Counts have always been an interesting army to me and if they get a makeover early next year, I will definitely be adding them to my list.

#3 D&D - A perennial favorite, the new rules will determine my direction here. I have always loved the game, though the minitatures selection since 3E has been less than stellar in my opinion primarily due to the sales and marketing model. I like to know what I'm getting when I buy miniatures (as evidenced by my love of the GW lines). Knowing this brings me to two games I'm very interested in but have yet to make the plunge...

#4 & #5 Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing and Dark Heresy (Warhammer 40K RP). These games have my interest right now and may end up with my D&D dollars simply because I have so many miniatures for both already in my collection.

So there I am with my favorite games and potential future directions. 4E has some competition for my gaming dollars, especially with huge armies fielded in Apocalypse combined with the option of re-purposing those minis for role playing games as well.

What I'm wondering is, how are personal gaming economies coming into play with ENWorlders out there and do others also have a potential of letting D&D go completely by the wayside with 4E as I do? I admit, the D&D Insider component sounds intriguing and could keep me involved with the game as I would use virtual minis, but my gaming dollars are finite and I can spend on only so much material.

I'll always be playing some version of D&D. Right now it looks very likely to be the Castles and Crusades version for a good long time.

I never got into Warhammer, but it sure looks cool. My other games are L5R, Shadowrun, Traveller, and a dozen others. With the internet I am sure I will always be able to play live RPG's. (Meaning I use SKYPE, so we talk live, for free.)

So if 4E isn't the "God of all Editions" in terms of playability and simplicity, I'm gone. For the first time since 1985 I will not be playing the "current" version of D&D. Of course one of the cool things about C&C is it allows me to seriously use ALL versions of D&D, so I will likely buy at least 4E adventures.

 

[Xyxox]

I never got into Warhammer, but it sure looks cool.

Miniature wargaming is certainly the most expensive of my tabletop gaming hobbies. One of my favorite things to do with D&D back in 2E days was to develop a campaign to a point where the characters lead armies on huge battlefields using full blown Battlesystems rules to play out the battles.

 

[Irda Ranger]

What I'm wondering is, how are personal gaming economies coming into play with ENWorlders out there and do others also have a potential of letting D&D go completely by the wayside with 4E as I do? I admit, the D&D Insider component sounds intriguing and could keep me involved with the game as I would use virtual minis, but my gaming dollars are finite and I can spend on only so much material.

My personal economics suggest I'll be getting the 4e Core Rulebooks, and little else. I was considering getting Bo9S (since it's basically a who new game), but then 4e was announced, so now I'll just wait for that and buy those books instead. (I'm very much a "sell me the engine, and I'll house rule any accessories I feel necessary" type of player. I've certainly never run out of "fun" using just the Core Rules and house rules in D&D 3.x, and my last major RPG purchases were Iron Heroes and Castles & Crusades.)

D&DI certainly isn't going to happen; not in an era of cheap bandwidth and free internet tools. <Nods to Treebore, re: Skype, gametable> There's just no value proposition there.

On a side note, I'm not judging your gaming purchases (all hobbies involving consensual adults are pretty much beyond anyone's right to judge), but man, I would never spend $450 on an RPG. I don't know how you'd even consider it. I haven't spent that much on D&D 3.5 in seven years. I could probably scrounge up a round-trip ticket to London for that much, and spend an equal amount trawling half a dozen cities in Europe using EasyJet and sleeping in hostels. I know it's all personal, but I'd far rather have the latter ...

 

[Cadfan]

In all my time playing D&D, I have only purchased three books. Heroes of Battle, The Book of Nine Swords, and Tome of Magic. I have used the SRD for everything else.

I expect this spending pattern to continue in the future. The only thing which might change is that I might be more willing to purchase modules, as my free time has reduced after graduation from college.

If WOTC wants to sell me books, they need to make themed books with innovative mechanics. Grab bag books like a spell compendium or Complete Whatever do not grab my attention, as I rarely want more than one thing out of them at a time. They are easier to borrow. Books like Heroes of Battle I want for their entirety, and I'd prefer to own.