Geeking out on Martial Arts

[Iku Rex]

why is that?

How do you accurately test what does or doesn't work? You see what happens when it's attempted against a resisting opponent.

 

[Darth Shoju]

The actual science could have been a lot better.
If y'all really want to learn more about well-tested martial arts you should watch MMA (Mixed Martial Arts). A dummy doesn't hit back.

Well I'm a huge MMA fan but IMO all it demonstrates is which martial arts work well in the context of the particular sport (and federation). Different styles work well in different organizations such as PRIDE, UFC and K1 as each has their own rules and competition area. When the UFC first started it was much more open-ended but still had certain limitations. As the rules have become more specific so has the style; MMA camps now train their fighters based on the constants of the rules-certain size gloves, no clothes beyond trunks, a cage (and rules on how it can be used), rules on how you can strike your opponent, etc. As far as I can tell, the effectiveness of any given martial art depends heavily on the practitioner and the context in which it is used. If MMA (and Bruce Lee before it...Dana White calls him the innovator or MMA) has taught us anything, it is that a true warrior should seek to become well-rounded and be able to adjust to the situation. Adhering too strictly to the forms of any particular martial-art can work counter to this philosophy.

Anyway, to steer back on-topic, is this the program where they had some martial artists kicking a heavy bag with sensors in it? I seem to recall they decided the one guy could kick with force exceeding that of a high-speed car accident...

-Darth Shoju, who seeks to become "well-rounded" through assal-horizontology and ingestion of baked goods.

 

[rossik]

How do you accurately test what does or doesn't work? You see what happens when it's attempted against a resisting opponent.

well....mma is not for real, actually....or you fight to kill?

sure, u punch and kick some other guy...but still, there are rules in competition.

 

[Iku Rex]

Well I'm a huge MMA fan but IMO all it demonstrates is which martial arts work well in the context of the particular sport (and federation).

Fight Science (the topic of the thread) tested a number of kicks and punches. All are allowed in the major MMA orgs. Some work well. Others don't.

Different styles work well in different organizations such as PRIDE, UFC and K1 as each has their own rules and competition area.

Actually, those rules have very little impact on the basics.

You do see some obvious differences. UFC fighters will behave differently on the ground then Pride fighters, since they know they can't be kicked or stomped by a standing opponent. The octagon makes for slightly different fights than the ring. Pride bans elbow strikes and so fighters will allow themselves to be "vulnerable" to elbow strikes. But the basic takedowns, the basic submissions and the basic kicks and punches - the "bread and butter" of MMA - remain the same. They've been tested. They work.

I can't think of any fighter who'd have a hard time adapting to the rules of those different organizations. (Assuming you mean K1 HERO's, and not the kickboxing.) In fact, fighters move from org to org with little apparent concern for changing rules.

Anyway, to steer back on-topic, is this the program where they had some martial artists kicking a heavy bag with sensors in it? I seem to recall they decided the one guy could kick with force exceeding that of a high-speed car accident...

It was a dummy with sensors in it, but yes. The "winner" was the muay thai champion, who grabbed the dummy and kneed it in the chest/stomach. (See Silva vs. Franklin at UFC 64 for a recent MMA demonstration of the same move. Edit: Video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi3tg_esxdfhruykkkkgytjvhgbb )

 

[Iku Rex]

well....mma is not for real, actually....or you fight to kill?

sure, u punch and kick some other guy...but still, there are rules in competition.

They are really hitting each other, kicking each other and twisting each other's limbs. A fight doesn't have to be "to the death" in order to find out if a technique works on a resisting opponent. :\

 

[rossik]

They are really hitting each other, kicking each other and twisting each other's limbs. A fight doesn't have to be "to the death" in order to find out if a technique works on a resisting opponent. :\

nah....i agree that they hit for real, and u have a good point about the technique...but still, no kick to the knees,for instance.

i was talking about this "If y'all really want to learn more about well-tested martial arts you should watch MMA (Mixed Martial Arts)"

 

[Iku Rex]

nah....i agree that they hit for real, and u have a good point about the technique...but still, no kick to the knees,for instance.

Kicks to the knees are allowed. That's not the usual target for leg kicks though, because the knee is a hard target. If you don't hit just right you could easily break your own foot. Instead fighters tend to aim for the thigh/muscle.

Leg kicks in MMA example: http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/pride gp 2006/video/xmecz_mirko-crocop-vs-hidehiko-yoshida.

i was talking about this "If y'all really want to learn more about well-tested martial arts you should watch MMA (Mixed Martial Arts)"

Yes? It's martial arts. It's well tested. Exactly what is it you object to?

 

[Mercule]

And all the talk about that ninja guy (TM) being the "ultimate warrior" or what-not was just silly.

Too true, but his balance was pretty cool.

 

[rossik]

Kicks to the knees are allowed. That's not the usual target for leg kicks though, because the knee is a hard target. If you don't hit just right you could easily break your own foot. Instead fighters tend to aim for the thigh/muscle.

Leg kicks in MMA example: http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/pride gp 2006/video/xmecz_mirko-crocop-vs-hidehiko-yoshida.

Yes? It's martial arts. It's well tested. Exactly what is it you object to?

sorry, i couldnt find words in english to explain better..ehehe


i meant through (dunno if this still right...its like u kick it to brake it)
as far as today, no breaking articulation rules are valid.
it could happen, sure, but the rules are about to protect the phisical integrity of the athlete.

ow, btw, i dont object, its just the way u put looks like u whant to say that MMA is the best art.. :\

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They were (among other things) comparing the power of various techniques by having the participants hit or kick a dummy. That's very size dependant. A 250 lb martial artist may not look as pretty doing the kung fu dancing as the little guy they had on the show, but I assure you he'll make more of an impact throwing his body at the dummy feet first. And he'll be backing up his strikes with far more muscle.

I agree 100%.

But my point was that certain techniques are more likely to be learned by smaller martial artists than larger ones, and delivering a quality blow is not just about muscle, but about technique and training.

In the older A&E "version" of such a show, they compared the blow strength of a 70 year old martial arts master with a blow from a much larger (probably 50lbs+ heavier) but relatively untrained man. The martial arts master's blow delivered 50% more energy to the target.

IOW, instead of having all blows delivered by physically similar martial artists who may have analogous strength but differing training, they had them delivered by martial artists of differing body types but who were equally competent martial artists- each delivering the blows they were best trained to deliver.