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Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
Already voted YES for sticky-ing DWI and MP; second the props for IW and SK!

(I tried to change the ownership of the 'Welcome' thread I stickied to Living PF Juge, but got a message saying I'm not allowed to do that).
 

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jkason

First Post
Definite props to both for all the hard work! :)

SK, the table I'm thinking of is here:

Character Status - L4W Wiki

The Role, Approved, and Notes fields don't seem like something we need (possibly also 'Status,' since I'm not sure there's enough retired / dead PCs that we need to sort them out), but the others are pretty much everything we'd be looking for.

It looks like that table pulls from values of pages using the L4W Character Template. That templates a much more elaborate one, visually, than I think we've been going for with the LPF sheets.

Basically, I was trying to figure out how to make the field defines they have there, but make it essentially look like the Basic Info box we have at the top of the current wiki sheets, adding in fields for player and location. I got about as far as identifying the background color, then got hopelessly lost trying to parse the page source / figure out the Templates Wiki instructions to get what I was after.

If it's an easy puzzle for you, it seems like it would take care of a lot of character tracking automatically on the wiki and save some time in the long run.

If it's a major pain, I'm not sure it's worth the backbending.
 

Satin Knights

First Post
Good news is "Yep, I can do that."
Bad news is "It is just a glorified hand coded table."

Looking at the code with edit, it is just a wiki style table, with the only redeeming factor being that columns can be sorted. I checked the "7 Rabbit" character and confirmed that the info on the character sheet is not being imported to the table. The table is at third level, and the character is fifth.

So, for the moment, my glorified hand coded tables and divs are just as good.

What we need is a category processor that reads templates. But, I cannot find any of that. On the Approved Characters category, there is something that is doing a for(1,8) get file, get first image, print first image or 50 chars of text, endfor. But I cannot find where it is. Once I find that and clone, I could create new categories that would do the equivalent of the Roll Call page for the DWI by a person just adding the DWI category to their character. Could actually do that now, but only the first eight characters in would get their pics used. The rest would be just an alphabetical list.
 

jackslate45

First Post
SK: does the wiki have a database you could use for that table? Ideally, you would have a table for each character, and have it update when new characters get added, ones quiet etc etc.

or would re-fitting everything into a database be more work than I am thinking?
 

Satin Knights

First Post
So far as I have seen, wiki's have databases as the backend storage for the data, but do not have any access to the database functions for the wiki user or script programmer. The scripts are very, very simple text substitutions, if then statements, and a very few math expressions. And since the text substitutions can be both recursive and interpreted, they are comparatively slow to any real language. If you cannot do something with cut|grep|awk|sed, you are not likely to accomplish it within a wiki. They are designed to be very simplistic and static once the editing is finished.

And the coding is just plain ugly. The eidolon template is about as complicate as I would want to get. A spare space or new line in that one, and it does things you don't expect it to do.

Obligatory: Just my opinion

Besides, free form for our character sheets allows more full and complete sheets. If you take a look at Arianna, she just doesn't fit if I tried to squeeze her into normal fields a character sheet would have that are chunked from a database. Too much is weird. And auto calculating, nope.
 

Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
I was a big proponent of the current "free form" sheet, primarily because of my experiences with LEB and the complaints I heard about their sheets. Once you get used to them, those sheets are . . . well . . . still a bear for a lot of people. Updating a character takes a considerable amount of time, and accidentally changing any of the coding syntax results in something really ugly. Plus, when you open up those character templates to edit your character it can be really intimidating.

I muddled through over on LEB, but editing my character was always a chore and it seemed like there was always someone asking the judges for help fixing the format on their sheets.

While the end result of our sheet is not nearly as decorative, it's much simpler for the average user to maintain.
 

Systole

First Post
I don't think we need a hard coded sheet, but if someone could design a block of code that listed out classes and maybe current availability, it would be a good thing.
 

Satin Knights

First Post
That was what I was taking a quick look at doing. There doesn't seem to be a way to grab X information from all the pages that are sitting in a category, that is public for scripters to use. The category pages are doing a little bit of what I want, but don't show me any source code that I could expand upon. They also stop at reading eight files in the category.
 

Damage Inc.

First Post
First things first...hello and congrats on the upgrade.

So I'm having some issues regarding the wiki. For some reason the wiki won't allow me to add catagories to my character sheet. I've been trying to place the character in question into the Unfinished Characters catagory as he's not ready for approval and I'm still deciding on who'll be my first character for play. Any help with this issue would be greatly appreciated.

*EDIT: WOW, can't believe I forgot his name Jarak Crownblood.
 

perrinmiller

Adventurer
When you are editing, go to "Visual" view instead of "Source". Then when you click and type in the little box that says "Add a category" you can get a drop-down to select the ones you want.
 

GlassEye

First Post
What perrinmiller said. Sometimes the 'Add a Category' button at the bottom of the page is very slow and it's easier and quicker to add a category while editing the whole sheet.

And welcome to LPF!
 

Damage Inc.

First Post
Awww, I'll do that and thanks.

So are ninja and samurai from UC available for play in these forums? Can't remember reading much about this particular topic. Along with the weapons associated with these classes and from UC in general.
 
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jkason

First Post
Good news is "Yep, I can do that."
Bad news is "It is just a glorified hand coded table."

Okay, I'm a moron. Sorry to waste your time. There are two table pages in that wiki, and I managed to link to the wrong one. The auto-generated one isn't the Character Status page, it's the Character Table page (I have no idea why they both exist):

http://l4w.wikia.com/wiki/Character_Table


Now that one does pull a block of info off the individual pages, I believe. At least, I never added my character info (Devinihm) to it, but he appears up to date there. From what I could tell, it looks for pages with the L4W:Character template, then grabs the designated fields that have been filled out.

Mind, I like the layout / free-form nature of the LPF sheets much better than the graphically-heavier stuff going on at the L4W wiki, but thought if we could make a small template just for that basic info (with added player / location) fields that could be filled), we could have a decently easy reference while still allowing for customization on the rest of the sheet.
 

jkason

First Post
Awww, I'll do that and thanks.

So are ninja and samurai from UC available for play in these forums? Can't remember reading much about this particular topic. Along with the weapons associated with these classes and from UC in general.

I believe at the moment, there's only limited UC content available. This should be a current list:

Ultimate Combat - Living Pathfinder RPG Wiki

Everything else currently would need judge approval to use (usually by adding a proposal on the specific element(s), which the judges can vote on after discussion). At the 6 month mark after publication, I think everything the judges haven't explicitly excluded become available for play.

I hope I got that right. :)
 

Satin Knights

First Post
OK. I looked at the L4W page and while possible, no for now.

A) It requires me to have admin rights to make changes to the wiki software, which I don't have currently. I could use those to add other widgits like spoiler tags.
B) Runs off a third party extension. I would need admin rights to install the extension.
C) The current documentation page for that extension has at least one web/JS virus attached to it.
D) The extension is marked known to be an easy cross-site scripting disaster usable to steal userids/passwords or change server files. In other words, it has no security measures in place. And the wiki language parser is just too painful to try and write a security filter from scratch.

-SK
EDIT: The third party extension is the one that is marked as dangerous. Apparently the standard extension has enough of what I would need and is considered safe.
 
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weldon

Explorer
I wrote the Character Table page on the L4W wiki. It does use the DPL extension to pull the info automatically from the existing templates. It is officially supported by wikia, you just have to ask them to turn it on for your site because it can cause a lot of problems (high server load / slow pages) if misused.

The security warnings apply to the DPL2 (third-party) extension, which is different.

If I can help with the LPF wiki, just let me know. I recently added the infobox_pc template that I put together for L4W so that [MENTION=6684473]CrimsonFlameWielder[/MENTION] could use it on LEB sheets too. It would be simple to add it to the LPF wiki as well.

The infobox would be the easiest way to put together a dynamic character status page. You would have to require that all character sheets use it to get the info on location, status, etc. The name, player, level, class, race, etc. are all available in the standard character templates as well and you are pretty much guaranteed to get those on every character.

One other relevant change that I made to the L4W wiki is that PC: is a true namespace, so it is possible to limit the query to just the PC namespace and only get character sheets instead of searching all admin, setting and adventure pages too.

Here's the info from wikia on how to use the DPL extension responsibly/effectively...

Help:DynamicPageList - Wikia Help
Help:Using DynamicPageList effectively - Wikia Help

If I can help with anything on your wiki, please ask. I'm happy to help.

EDIT: I didn't realize this was Living Pathfinder at first. Jumped over from a question asked in L4W. The offer to help still stands.
 
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Satin Knights

First Post
Out of boredom I made a page of the current games with their players at Roll Call. People liked it, but said it will fall stale if it isn't made dynamically. Well, the page could be done dynamically, but:
1) a game only starts or stops about once a month.
2) dynamic pages chew cpu cycles every time and the help pages pretty much beg not to over tax the system.
3) eidolons would be annoying exception handling.
4) I don't have admin rights, I do now, Thanks GE.

So, for the moment, I am not going to attempt a double nested dynamic replacement of the Roll Call page.
(hit preview, and state of mind changes)

I will take a look at getting it done without too much wear and tear on the server. I think there are debug strings I can pull that will tell me just how intense the background work on the page is.
 

weldon

Explorer
I will take a look at getting it done without too much wear and tear on the server. I think there are debug strings I can pull that will tell me just how intense the background work on the page is.
You can use allowcachedresults=true since the page is updated so infrequently. It won't put much load on the server that way.

As an aside, one of the philosophical debates over the use of dynamic page lists on L4W has been around the tension between making the "shared" lists simple but asking players to update multiple pages (their own character, a status page, an adventure history page, etc.) and making templates required but asking players to just keep their own character page updated (with multiple templates to provide the info for those different lists).

You guys might consider the balance that would be best for LPF.
 

IronWolf

blank
It sounds like people are leaning towards having the DWI and Pearl threads also moved to this forum and stickied as well? Is that accurate? Let's get some yay's and nay's and if people want that I can ping Umbran to move those two threads for us.

Edit: YES for moving DWI and Mystic Pearl here to be stickied.

And, YES for moving the DWI and the Pearl threads here with stickies.

Already voted YES for sticky-ing DWI and MP; second the props for IW and SK!

I also agree with the idea of moving the DWI and Mystic threads here as stickies. Last call for objections before I summon Umbran to help us out with that.

(Not trying to drag this decision out, just want to make sure folks are on board before the threads move.)
 

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