General Discussion

[DalkonCledwin]

EDIT: I just checked the Core Rulebook. According to page 219 of the Core Rulebook you only need to make ONE spellcraft check in order to copy a spell from either a scroll or another spellbook into your own spellbook. This spellcraft check is made in order to learn the spell. The only reason another spellcraft check would need to be made is assuming that the person trying to decipher the spell from the spellbook or scroll did not make use of the "Read Magic" spell in order to decipher the spell in question. However since Fae'shiel is present and would have instructed Marcus in how best to approach the process of learning a spell (i.e. she would have taught him to use "Read Magic" instead of trying to use his own inborn talent), it should be assumed that he automatically deciphers the magical writings without the use of a spellcraft check, and thus only has to make a DC 15 + Spell Level Spellcraft Check in order to learn the spell.

Also of note, is that in this instance Fae'shiel is present to help Marcus learn the spells and decipher the writing in her spellbook. And since she is the one who created the magical writing in her spellbook, there is no need for either a read magic spell or spellcraft check in order to decipher the magical writing as success on deciphering magical writing is automatic if the original author of the magical writing is present to help the person trying to decipher it. The exception is in the case of Marcus' own spellbook which was apparently written by Lady Atchka or whatever her name is, in which case either a spellcraft check or a Read Magic Check by either Marcus or Fae'shiel would have been necessary in order to decipher the writing at least initially.

 

[GlassEye]

Okay...I rolled to learn spells from Fae'shiel's (the Mentor) spellbook, not using the +5, in Mystic Pearl. Some confusion has arisen about if I needed to make the first spellcraft check to decipher the spell since Fae'shiel was trying to help Marcus learn the spells. He succeeded in figuring out two of the three spells and succeeded in transcribing one of the two he was able to figure out.

So...if I did this wrong-o do I need to go back and just do 1 spellcraft roll for each spell with the +5 to copy them over since Fae'shiel is there actively helping him, or do I still need to do each roll, in which case I don't think the results will change with the addition of the +5. I don't think.

Here is the post I did the rolls in. SK pointed out the +5 Mentor Assist I missed, referenced in the quote above.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/living...ne-row-venza-mystic-pearl-29.html#post5984584

Assuming that works.

Artur,
You don't need to decipher Fae'shiel's spellbook code because she is there to help you out (as DC said). You only need to make the checks for learning the spells; in this case, DC 16. Using your first three rolls and adding the +5 mentor bonus Marcus would be successful on all three. Remember, scribing scrolls in this fashion still costs the same as buying a scroll and scribing it into your book (35 gp to buy & scribe a 1st level spell) and takes one 'real life' day per spell.

EDIT: Be sure you add these scroll/scribing costs under your 'Used/Consumed' section of your equipment/finances on your sheet. What am I saying, you're an accountant, you've got this part down.

 

[HolyMan]

Was just thinking about how to keep the tracking of equipment headache down for the judges.

What if when PC's sell back any gear that doesn't get added back into the inventory. The only thing added to the Inventory would be leftover gear from an adventure.

The mention idea is a good one, as it would stand out as a post to look into carefully when you are updating.
_____________________

I know I asked about Dareo's purchases before this because I got no answer to the "purchasing spellcasting" question. The main question is if it is allowed without rolling to see if a caster is available and such.


HM

 

[DalkonCledwin]

Artur,
You don't need to decipher Fae'shiel's spellbook code because she is there to help you out (as DC said). You only need to make the checks for learning the spells; in this case, DC 16. Using your first three rolls and adding the +5 mentor bonus Marcus would be successful on all three. Remember, scribing scrolls in this fashion still costs the same as buying a scroll and scribing it into your book (35 gp to buy & scribe a 1st level spell) and takes one 'real life' day per spell.

EDIT: Be sure you add these scroll/scribing costs under your 'Used/Consumed' section of your equipment/finances on your sheet. What am I saying, you're an accountant, you've got this part down.

He isn't actually scribing any scrolls as that is actualy banned in Living Pathfinder under the self-same rules that ban the creation of magic items by players.

What he is doing is copying spells from my spellbook into his own spellbook, thus the purchase of a scroll is not required. This means the cost of the scribing is of the spell into his spellbook is only 10 gp for each first level spell (according to page 219 of the Core Rulebook). Unless living Pathfinder has different rules on how to add spells to a spellbook other than just the different rules on how long it takes. In which case I aopologize for the contradiction.

Additionally is the fact that at the moment Fae'shiel is the one who actually paid for the cost of Marcus' scribing materials (i.e. his Ink). So it is actually her who has to add the fee of consumed materials on her sheet, until such time as Marcus repays her, assuming she allows Marcus to repay her.

 

[GlassEye]

He isn't actually scribing any scrolls as that is actualy banned in Living Pathfinder under the self-same rules that ban the creation of magic items by players.

What he is doing is copying spells from my spellbook into his own spellbook, thus the purchase of a scroll is not required. This means the cost of the scribing is of the spell into his spellbook is only 10 gp for each first level spell (according to page 219 of the Core Rulebook). Unless living Pathfinder has different rules on how to add spells to a spellbook other than just the different rules on how long it takes. In which case I aopologize for the contradiction.

Additionally is the fact that at the moment Fae'shiel is the one who actually paid for the cost of Marcus' scribing materials (i.e. his Ink). So it is actually her who has to add the fee of consumed materials on her sheet, until such time as Marcus repays her, assuming she allows Marcus to repay her.

I know exactly what he is doing. I did, however, misspeak and say 'scribing scrolls' when I meant 'scribing spells'. And, yes, LPF uses different rules for scribing in order to maintain a balanced wealth by level for all characters. The cost to copy from someone else's book is the same as buying a scroll and scribing it into a spellbook. Since you are playing a spellcaster I recommend you take a look at those rules posted here.

 

[GlassEye]

I know I asked about Dareo's purchases before this because I got no answer to the "purchasing spellcasting" question. The main question is if it is allowed without rolling to see if a caster is available and such.

HM, what spellcasting were you purchasing? As long as it is under the purchase level for Venza (presuming that's where Darreo is) then I don't think it is a problem.

 

[HolyMan]

"Purchasing level for Venza" -aha!

Knew there was rule for it - was tickling the back of my brain - I just don't know where to find the spell levels allowed. Maybe an add-on to the OP of the Mystic Pearl?

Darreo purchased Masterwork Transformation (Spell LvL 2) from a gnome cleric.

HM

 

[DalkonCledwin]

the thing is... Copying a spell from a spellbook is not supposed to be as expensive as copying a spell from a scroll. I mean if it were just as expensive to copy a spell from a spellbook as it is to copy a spell from a scroll, then I am looking at spending 35 gold pieces each and everytime I want to copy one of my OWN 1st level spells from one of my OWN spellbooks into a new spellbook that also belongs to ME. Do you see how much of a hassle this would begin to be? Especially once we start having to pay the cost of copying spells of the 8th and 9th levels...

Say I have a 20th level Wizard, who wants to copy a total of 5 20th level spells from one of his spellbooks to another of his spellbooks. We are talking about forcing him to spend 23,175 GP on scribing materials alone just to copy spells from one of his own spellbooks to another of his own spellbooks. And yes that is essentially what your rules require by proxy. In effect forcing the mage to pay that cost twice for the same spells (assuming the spells in question weren't ones he learned at level up). Thats a total of 18 percent of the expected wealth of a person who just turned level 20 (granted LPF has slightly higher expectations of wealth than a standard campaign, but still).

When you state that it costs the same cost in order to copy a spell into a spellbook from another spellbook when first learning it, it logically also costs the same to copy it from an old spellbook into a new spellbook of the same caster. The reason for this is because the laws of magic require that the same materials that are used for scribing a spell you just learned also be used when copying spells from one spellbook to another regardless of whether you already knew the spell or not.

Does no one see the logical fallacy here? There is a reason why the Core Rulebook does not make the cost of copying spells from a scroll the same as copying spells from another spellbook. It becomes logistically impossible to continuously pay for the cost of scrolls as well as the cost of updating spellbooks. Especially once you start adding multiple spellbooks to your own library as many wizards end up doing over the course of their careers.

 

[HolyMan]

What's a 20th lvl spell?

5 9th lvl spells would cost you - 4,050gp (And fill up almost half the book btw)

What your trying to do by making a library of spells so you can pull a spell book out and go adventuring with it is admirable but not in the realm of the LPF where - "Keep it simple." - is the motto.

And it says that no matter what the source - scroll or spellbook- the process is the same.

HM

 

[DalkonCledwin]

What's a 20th lvl spell?

5 9th lvl spells would cost you - 4,050gp (And fill up almost half the book btw)

What your trying to do by making a library of spells so you can pull a spell book out and go adventuring with it is admirable but not in the realm of the LPF where - "Keep it simple." - is the motto.

And it says that no matter what the source - scroll or spellbook- the process is the same.

HM

I meant 5 9th level spells. And I have yet to meet a spellcaster who hasn't filled up half or more of a mundane spellbook with nothing but 9th or 8th level spells. They are kind of exclusive to the other spells in the level ranges.

Also, if I wanted to go along and say that "Keep it Simple" really were the motto of LPF, then you guys would be giving these books as free gifts to all spellcasters that utilize spellbooks capable of casting level 4 or higher spells. But I doubt that is going to happen.

Also, the core rule book says that the process is the same to learn the spell. But copying the spell from the source material is vastly different. The reason that copying the spell from a scroll costs more is because scrolls require a great deal more time and effort to construct (taking at least 2 hours to make as opposed to a spellbooks minimum of 1 hour of study). Additionally you also have the fact that when a merchant sells a scroll that they have to sell it at a certain price if they wish to make a profit (that being the base price as indicated in the scribe scroll feat). Copying a spell from a friends spellbook has no set charge associated with it other than the cost of Ink. Requiring an individual to pay for Ink that costs the same amount as the Mark Up on a Scroll is Incredulous. I mean I have heard of some brands of high quality Ink in our own world that costs upwards a few hundred dollars. But nothing approaching the scale of 4,000+ Gold Pieces.

Now I think it is fair to explain something here. A Gold Piece as described in Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 is 1/50th of a Pound of Pure Gold. 4,000 Gold Pieces is the approximate equivalent of 80 pounds of pure gold. That would be the equivalent of 2,060,774.4 US Dollars. I don't know about you, but that is a rediculously insane price for ink that no one in their right mind would pay for. Not even Voldemort.

To put things into perspective, that 150 GP Starting Wealth is roughly the equivalent of 77,279.04 US Dollars. To think how much stuff we could actually buy with 150 GP in the real world when compared to the scrap that we start with in Pathfinder.