General Question: How off-track do you go?

[Crazy Jerome]

@S'mon , oh sure, you don't have to go that extreme every time, and shouldn't. Not only is it too much, but it will lose its force, if every location is like that. I was using the extreme version to make the point that you need something, and that something needs to be interesting tactically.

A blank pillar in the room is pretty boring. A pillar with some etching scrawled on it may add something to the background and interest the players that way, but still provides next to no tactical interest. A pillar with stone carvings big enough that they can impede movement for someone trying to get around it? Not all that fancy, but something.

Ideally, I like for my things like that to have background/story interest and tactical interest. I guess I've seen too many "interesting locations" that were all background and no tactical, where the idea is to have the fight in a blank room with some background color, and then get into the interesting part after the fight is over.

In 4E, you'd like for interesting part to matter during the fight and maybe not even all of that's tactical. Your character gets slammed into a pillar for a bit of extra damage, and as he is prying himself off to retaliate, he notices that one of the carvings is of an elder spirit that features in the story.

 

[S'mon]

[MENTION=463]
In 4E, you'd like for interesting part to matter during the fight and maybe not even all of that's tactical. Your character gets slammed into a pillar for a bit of extra damage, and as he is prying himself off to retaliate, he notices that one of the carvings is of an elder spirit that features in the story.

Heh, that's funny.

 

[Mengu]

I find a combination of flexible preparation and improvisation works best in these situations.

I just ran an encounter, where I didn't really know where the PC's were going to take it, and was prepared for contingencies. They had 3 problems to deal with all at the same time. They could ignore two and deal with one, or split up to deal with two out of 3, or all three. They ended up splitting into two. I had scaling thought out for each encounter depending on how many of them showed up at each encounter. That's where the bit of extra prep time comes in handy. Depending on where multi-target attackers showed up, I adjusted number of minions on the fly, that's where improvisation and knowing your party helps. Then I drew a line down the center of my grid, drew two maps, placed the PC's on their respective maps, and ran the simultaneous combat.

Another aspect of prep work is, I usually have encounters prepped for an area in advance. If the PC's decide to take an unexpected route (which is somewhat often), I have a pool of monsters already statted out for other future encounters, to draw from. I will use them. And before next session, I'll go back and modify those future encounters to keep things interesting, if I don't want to reuse the same monsters again.

Drawing terrain on the fly can sometimes be dangerous. If I end up giving either side an advantage with elevation or difficult terrain or cover, the apparent balance of the encounter can be thrown off. If the PC's get an easy win, that's usually okay, vs the enemies getting the upper hand, so if I'm drawing ad hoc terrain, I try to err on the side of the PC's.

I don't feel 4e is any better or worse than other editions when it comes to on the fly encounter design or changes. One thing I have to say is, minions and tough minions are my friends.

 

[Saracenus]

This thread and a few others in the last few weeks have had a common theme... 4e doesn't do X, Y, or Z that Edition [Insert Number Here] did.

Unfortunately, no edition will hand hold you through every aspect of the game. That is where message boards like this where tons of players and DMs alike can share tips, tricks, and bits of gaming arcana that makes everyone a better DM and/or player.

Just because you cannot see how to do something doesn't mean someone else hasn't figured it out. There is a tremendous resource here at EN World that just didn't exist when I cut my teeth on RPGs back in the late 70s and early 80s. I learned from fellow DMs, gaming magazines, and sometimes from support material (I first learned "bluebooking" from a Champions supplement).

The question is not, "Why doesn't 4e doesn't do X, Y, or Z," but a more better way to put it is, "I am having trouble doing X, Y, or Z in 4e, how would you make this happen?"

The former gets you a bunch of blow back defending 4e (and a bit of help), the latter takes you straight to the helping phase.

My two coppers,

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Then I drew a line down the center of my grid, drew two maps, placed the PC's on their respective maps, and ran the simultaneous combat.

Really like that idea; one that I had never considered for a party split. I'll have to try that some time.

 

[Kzach]

Has page 42 been updated to MM3 math?

 

[Matt James]

This thread is interesting and eye-opening. I may need to draft an article for Loremaster.org in regards to helping out. 4e, unlike most other RPGs that I have played over the past couple of decades, is easier for me to improve and story-tell in.

 

[KidSnide]

Here's my advice for running the type of campaign you want: Do what you did to run that type of game in earlier editions. Seriously, that's all it takes. Want to run a sandbox? Establish that not all encounters are the pcs' level- and stick to it; if they head to the ancient dragon's cave at 3rd level, they are asking either for a tpk or to leave all their loot behind as a bribe. If the 10th level group attacks a clan of goblins, they can cut them down like wheat before the scythe.

Here's one good tip: Don't be afraid to 'revalue' monsters. So the 10th level pcs attacking the goblins fight a lot of minions that, had the pcs been 5th level, would have been 'standard' monsters goblins. When the 3rd level party bungles into a hook horror, make it a 3rd level solo instead of a 10th level standard. (Examples off the top of my head.)

QFT. Apparently, I must spread experience around...

-KS

 

[S'mon]

Turning low level critters into minions is pretty easy, but making a good Solo takes lots of prep, you need to know in advance the encounter is likely.

For the 10th level standard vs 3rd level PCs, I'd either run it as-is if it's a Brute, or maybe make it a 5th-6th level Elite.