Generic Classes Redux

[sirwmholder]

...snip very good points...

IMHO, skills should be used to make a more rounded character... one which can have real growth and interest beyond the combat style in which they specialize... that is the core problem with Expert... they do not specialize in combat only in more skills. Combat =/= Skills, therefore add more skills to the combat classes and nix the Expert.

Example standard: Elbert the Expert Opens the Locked door, while checking for traps, reciting a poem and eating a ham sandwich. The door opens, the trap is avoided, the party applauds his theatrics, and the BBEG on the other side is caught unaware. Several rounds of combat later, Elbert the Expert tries to hit BBEG and misses yet again.

Example goal: Fred the Fighter spends his free time practicing Open Lock just in case he is ever knocked out and shackled. At the next locked dungeon door, before Morgan the Mage can cast a spell, Fred asks if he can give it a go. It's a rather complicated lock but Fred is successful... the BBEG on the other side is caught unaware. Several rounds of combat later, Fred the Fighter is Power Attacking (5) and knocks the BBEG out.

I'm not saying one is better than the other... it's just my group does not like the concept of the "dumb" meat shield and prefers option 2. I expect a certain level of power creep since all characters will be more effective in combat... that I am prepared for. However, is there anything far reaching that not having a devoted Expert will hurt the group?

Thanks for your time,
William Holder

 

[Herobizkit]

I'm not saying one is better than the other... it's just my group does not like the concept of the "dumb" meat shield and prefers option 2. I expect a certain level of power creep since all characters will be more effective in combat... that I am prepared for.

And again, for your campaign, makes perfect sense. Changing the game to suit the players is what many decent DMs do. One observation, though: Why is a "dumb" fighter spending all his time learning to Open Locks instead of swordplay? Wouldn't someone who spent MORE time studying Open Locks therefore be spending LESS time at swordplay (for example)? And to expand on that, wouldn't someone with a whole LOT of assorted skills have even LESS time to practice swordplay?

You can be a Fighter and not be dumb. Using the Unearthed Arcana, "Fighters" get any six skills, plus Craft. Experts get any 12 (!) skills. Fighter wants to learn Open Lock, great! Just realize that, in trading off better puissance at-arms, he sacrifices skill focus. Same reason that Spellcasters have even less skills to select from; they have magic to back all that up. And if you can take a feat to learn spells ala Elements of Magic, well... you're brekaig up your character's focus even further.

Here's what *I* would do -- this comes pretty much from the True20 RPG system -- Give each class the requisite amount of skills, and then throw away skill points. If you have the skill, you automatically get max ranks in the skill. When you level, you automatically max out all your skills. To learn any NEW skills, I believe you need to take a special feat that allows you to learn two more skills.

It just seems to me that your players all want to be Indiana Jones. Thinker, fighter, treasure-hunter, general azz-kicker. If that's the case, why have classes at all?

As an aside, if this is the style of game you'd like to run, I strongly recommend a blend of True20's and d20's systems; d20's way of tracking damage, True20's everything else.

 

[sirwmholder]

...It just seems to me that your players all want to be Indiana Jones. Thinker, fighter, treasure-hunter, general azz-kicker...

Good points all... this line really stands out because it sums up our group succinctly. I'm not familiar with True20. Do you have a link handy?

Thanks so much for your time,
William Holder

 

[Herobizkit]

True20 (and its Fantasy "mother", Blue Rose) can be found here. True20 is more of a generic system that can be used with any genre, while Blue Rose was specifically designed for Fantasy genres. I strongly enjoy Blue Rose's concepts.