GEOMANCER: It's Cheezetastic?

[Visigani]

I was looking over the Geomancer earlier today... and I realized something...


Spells per Day/Spells Known:
At each geomancer level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to
which he belonged before adding the prestige class.


What that doesn't say... is that the spellcasting class must be a core class. In other words, you can choose a prestige class.

A prestige class like Mystic Theurge, which is very much a "Spellcasting Class". As precedent the Sublime Chord is frequently used as the "arcane spellcaster class" for Fochlucan Lyrist.

In choosing the Mystic Theurge you gain access to both Spellcasting level increases each level.

Consequently the Geomancer could play out like this:

Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 4/Geomancer 10

This ensures 17 levels of both Divine and Arcane spells by level 20 as well as a number of neat special abilities, not the least of which is choosing you wish to use intelligence or Wisdom for DCs for both arcane and dibine spells and allowing the caster to cast arcane spells in full plate.



This all hinges on whether or not Mystic Theurge is a "Spellcasting Class". As the class increases caster level, grants new spells per level, has prerequisites based on the ability of the character to cast spells, and is arguably wholly centered on spellcasting... I'm comfortable in saying Mystic Theurge is a "Spellcasting Class".

 

[Dandu]

GEOMANCER: It's Cheezetastic?

HAHAHAHA.... no.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

This all hinges on whether or not Mystic Theurge is a "Spellcasting Class". As the class increases caster level, grants new spells per level, has prerequisites based on the ability of the character to cast spells, and is arguably wholly centered on spellcasting... I'm comfortable in saying Mystic Theurge is a "Spellcasting Class".

Comfortable as that may seem, it's wrong. A "spellcasting class" is a class with its own spellcasting progression. The mystic theurge class--by virtue of only increasing another class's progressions, not granting any of its own--is not one.

This question comes up every time someone re-discovers the possibility that mystic theurge and other dual-progression classes might be able to be advanced by another PrC; you can probably find some other threads that discuss it with a bit of googling.

 

[Pergentile]

One prestige class cannot use another for the purposes of advancing spell-casting. The base classes of (in this case) Wizard and Cleric would be used, and then the advancement of both prestige classes would be applied to either of those two that are applicable.

Edit: Phshaw! Google is for... ninja's!

 

[Visigani]

Comfortable as that may seem, it's wrong. A "spellcasting class" is a class with its own spellcasting progression. The mystic theurge class--by virtue of only increasing another class's progressions, not granting any of its own--is not one.

This question comes up every time someone re-discovers the possibility that mystic theurge and other dual-progression classes might be able to be advanced by another PrC; you can probably find some other threads that discuss it with a bit of googling.

So, you're saying The Mysitc Theurge is not a Spellcasting class? i.e. it's not a class and it does not engage in spellcasting?


I really am curious for any sort of basis on this. The requirement isn't for a class that has a spell list. merely a class that casts spells. The Mystic Theurge casts spells. Since you cannot be a Mystic Theurge without being able to cast spells that makes it doubly so.

Again, the requirement is not for a class that has a spell list, only for a class that engages in spellcasting.

 

[Dandu]

A Wizard 3/Cleric3/MT 4 isn't considered powerful. What makes you think something with the same spellcasting progression at level 20 would be broken?

 

[Visigani]

A Wizard 3/Cleric3/MT 4 isn't considered powerful. What makes you think something with the same spellcasting progression at level 20 would be broken?

Because you'd have the spellcasting of a Wizard 17 and a Cleric 17... while not having issues with MAD... i.e. if you focused exclusively on Intelligence the DCs of both your Wizard and your Cleric spells would be very high.

 

[Dandu]

A Wizard/Archivist MT build is even less MAD, as Int is the key casting stat for both classes. Unlike your Geomancer example, not only are DCs both based on Int, but the minimum score for casting and bonus spells also run on Int.

It's still not considered broken.

 

[Visigani]

A Wizard/Archivist MT build is even less MAD, as Int is the key casting stat for both classes. Unlike your Geomancer example, not only are DCs both based on Int, but the minimum score for casting and bonus spells also run on Int.

It's still not considered broken.

The difference being for both the Wizard and the Archivest dual progression stops at level 13 for each with the Mystic Theurge spellcasting progression, leaving four levels... allowing 9th lvl spells for one... but not both.

 

[Dandu]

You seem to be missing the point.

A Wizard/Archivist MT build is a better base for Geometer, but even having the casting stat be Int for a dual classed caster still does not break it even if the progression goes up to level 20.

Having 17th level casting just isn't impressive at level 20, even if it is in two different classes. You lose out on peak power in terms of more versatility and endurance. This is at best and even trade but more often is not.

Comprende?