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<blockquote data-quote="Shardstone" data-source="post: 8659913" data-attributes="member: 6807784"><p>I think you have a different view of CR then WotC does for high level encounters.</p><p></p><p>4 PCs are very powerful due to action economy and the stacking of an absurd amount of features between them. T3 characters, that is, characters 11-16, can with take on a creature almost anywhere in the range of 21-30 when they are fresh/rested and have their magic items. This is normally mitigated by running games where direct, isolated combats aren't common, such as games where the enemies actually run away and don't fight to the death, and use their own resources to ambush, weaken, and harass the party. </p><p></p><p>Imagine, someone as smart as Vecna is never going to go into a fight even with no preparation before hand against someone who can cast 5th-9th level spells, attack 3-8 times a turn, bring back the dead, use any of hundreds of different spells at any point during the combat, and so on. Why would he do that? Instead, Vecna gathers together his forces, sets up the battlefield how he wants to set it up, and forces the players into his own game. Its only sensible.</p><p></p><p>If you want to run Vecna as a solo battle in an arena, that's fine, but high level D&D is not that kind of game unless you give a monster all the things I mentioned in my last post. And its ok that most high level challenges are team efforts, because high level play has a lot of powerful things flying around and, when ran right, becomes a chain of fun and insane encounters that really brings the most out of the 5Th edition system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shardstone, post: 8659913, member: 6807784"] I think you have a different view of CR then WotC does for high level encounters. 4 PCs are very powerful due to action economy and the stacking of an absurd amount of features between them. T3 characters, that is, characters 11-16, can with take on a creature almost anywhere in the range of 21-30 when they are fresh/rested and have their magic items. This is normally mitigated by running games where direct, isolated combats aren't common, such as games where the enemies actually run away and don't fight to the death, and use their own resources to ambush, weaken, and harass the party. Imagine, someone as smart as Vecna is never going to go into a fight even with no preparation before hand against someone who can cast 5th-9th level spells, attack 3-8 times a turn, bring back the dead, use any of hundreds of different spells at any point during the combat, and so on. Why would he do that? Instead, Vecna gathers together his forces, sets up the battlefield how he wants to set it up, and forces the players into his own game. Its only sensible. If you want to run Vecna as a solo battle in an arena, that's fine, but high level D&D is not that kind of game unless you give a monster all the things I mentioned in my last post. And its ok that most high level challenges are team efforts, because high level play has a lot of powerful things flying around and, when ran right, becomes a chain of fun and insane encounters that really brings the most out of the 5Th edition system. [/QUOTE]
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