Getting Inside A WotC Marketer's Head

[airwalkrr]

The idea is that a new edition of D&D is supposed to unite the players of D&D by bringing back some retro stuff that there appears to be some level of consensus on and offering optional rules supplements to play a more "advanced" level of the game. Now, I like this, but there is an elephant in the room, and I am want to talk about it. I think the subtext here is that WotC sees a clear divide between 4e players and Pathfinder players. Personally, I am neither. I have still been playing 3e. As far as I am concerned, 3e was never really broken and did not need fixing. There was a crack or two to be sure, but the game is still loads of fun. But a majority of fantasy gamers out there are playing one of two games: 4e or Pathfinder. And I think WotC is looking to try to grab back the fantasy RPG market share from Pathfinder.

Now before you start accusing me of calling WotC an evil corporation or anything like that, let me assure you that I do believe that a certain level of free market economics makes better products for the populace as a whole. I believe WotC's new direction is a good sign. I am presently neutral on the issue of whether WotC or Paizo is the better company so I am not hating on WotC. They are in the business of selling games. That is how they make their money. And their market share is being absorbed by Paizo. It is only natural to fight back. But I am just calling a spade a spade here. WotC would really like to nab some of those Pathfinder players back into playing D&D if they can. So the language here is carefully calculated. I think we all need to be aware of that. And their insistence that their play-testing for the new edition is a clear sign of mimicry of the open Alpha play-test that Pathfinder experienced. I hope we do get a really open play-test here. And I hope that is what the marketers mean when they say they want to unite the player base.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

WotC would really like to nab some of those Pathfinder players back into playing D&D if they can. So the language here is carefully calculated. I think we all need to be aware of that.

So what? Companies compete for customers. It's not diabolical or dark. It's what they're supposed to do.

Second, it sounds like you have conspiracy-on-the-brain (<-- that's a funny!) seeing calculation and schemes from employees just spouting off their thoughts. I refuse to take that sort of skepticism to what I see them saying.

 

[enrious]

I think the subtext here is that WotC sees a clear divide between 4e players and Pathfinder players. Personally, I am neither. I have still been playing 3e...But a majority of fantasy gamers out there are playing one of two games: 4e or Pathfinder. And I think WotC is looking to try to grab back the fantasy RPG market share from Pathfinder.

Why do you think WotC only sees a divide between 4e players and Pathfinder players, to the exclusion of 3e players, even granting your supposition that 4e & Pathfinder are responsible for the majority of fantasy gamers?

In other words, what evidence is there to suggest that WotC is ignoring or minimizing the opinions, views, or thoughts of 3e players in lieu of 4e and Pathfinder players?

You go on to say that WotC would like to get Pathfinder players back into the fold. Well yeah, they want to have as many players as they can playing 5e, but here's the rub:

They want players of all editions of D&D, players of other games, and people who've never played a RPG to be playing 5e!

I wouldn't be so quick to accuse WotC of jumping on the open playtesting bandwagon just because Paizo did it; there are plenty of logical reasons to do so (especially given how they treated 4e playtesting) - and it doesn't necessarily have to have Pathfinder as a reason.

That's a slippery slope to start sliding down.

 

[grimslade]

What are we questioning here? Would WotC want everyone to play 5E? Umm, yes. Their business is to sell D&D books and DDI subscriptions. Would they weep at a wholesale usurping of Paizo's customer base? No. They might chuckle at their infinite domination of the market, but it's not going to happen. WotC wants lots of people playing their game and buying their books. Actually, they don't care if you play, only that you buy. If you run a one Paizo adventure path after another but pick up a couple of 5E option books to flesh out a few encounters or tweak a character, WotC is happy. If you decide to drop Pathfinder and embrace a new 5E campaign, WotC is happy. If you look at 5E and don't see anything to tempt your wallet, WotC is glum. That is all. No conspiracy. No evil vibe. No legalese tricks. They are putting out a new edition to compete RPG dollars.

 

[BobROE]

To me their marketing (if what they've done so far is marketing) seems to be directed at lapsed players and people with groups who are unhappy with whatever game they're currently playing.

If they were just trying to eat away at Pathfinder players why have all the "mainstream" media cover their announcement?

It seems far more likely that they feel that there is a large portion of people who don't play because either the game got to complicated or because they can't get a group of like-minded people together. And trying to get those people to buy into 5E will help them make money. Along with people who are playing but within the group there are divisions regarding the feel of the game and ruleset, etc. Their effort to make the game simplier at a base level and allow people with different "complities" of characters to play together, seems to be attractive to these groups.

But really nothing they've announced so far gives me any reason for a group of people who are happy playing their current game to switch (whatever game they currently play), other than "NEW & SHINY".

 

[Jawsh]

To me their marketing (if what they've done so far is marketing) seems to be directed at lapsed players and people with groups who are unhappy with whatever game they're currently playing.

[snip]

But really nothing they've announced so far gives me any reason for a group of people who are happy playing their current game to switch (whatever game they currently play), other than "NEW & SHINY".

You might be right about that being their thinking. However, if WotC is thinking like that, they're doing it wrong.

I mean, the segment of players who are playing a game that they don't really like, but tolerating it because it's the only thing out there. That segment has to be extremely small or nonexistent. A world in which that segment is large is a dour place indeed.

"We know you hate Dungeons & Dragons, so we've fixed it for you! Enjoy! What, why aren't you buying it?"

 

[Henry]

I don't think that WotC, Mike Mearls or any faceless soulless marketers (well, maybe the faceless, soulless marketers) are under any illusions of trying to "drive Pathfinder out of business by eating its lunch." They're just hoping that this point to try and get PF players to TRY the new D&D, and add it to their gaming diet. adding it to their gaming diet means they have some mindshare again with those players, and so can sell them things useful to multiple gamers and types of gamers. There are a HELL of a lot of people who are saying, "I haven't touched a WotC product for X years!" (I'm actually one of them!) That they want to get checking their websites, seeing cool stuff, and finding things that they can use.

What you have to realize is that a rising tide DOES float most boats, and though battereed, D&D IS still the most recognizable RPG in the world. Much as I love Paizo, I can't see CNN, Forbes, and NY Times turning out voluntarily for the intro of a new Pathfinder product - D&D still has a powerful recognition, and new players still know OF it, if not in detail. If D&D can get healthy marketwise, Paizo, Pinnacle, all these RPG companies benefit down the road.

WotC isn't like the Roman Empire in 476 CE; it's like The Roman Empire in 390 CE, when it still had time to turn around.

 

[mkill]

WotC wants you to buy their products, rather than those of another company. Pope still Catholic.

If the Paizo competition forces WotC to make better(-selling) products, I'm all for it. If WotC is really smart, they'll make 5E open enough so that Paizo can publish material that works with both 5E and Pathfinder. After all, closing up 4E is what drove Paizo to make their own RPG in the first place. If you have a gun, it usually helps not to aim for one's own foot.

 

[Mokona]

I don't know any numbers for Pathfinder or Dungeons & Dragons. As a former member of D&D "marketing" (long ago), I suspect that the problems Wizards of the Coast is trying to address are much bigger than Paizo.