Getting OSRIC/AD&D into FLGS and publishers

[nightraven]

Forked from: Is OSRIC the new in print "defacto" D&D?

I've heard good things about OSRIC, but "strong brand" is pretty relative. Within the nichey niche world of D&D clones, I would say so. But outside of that, no, not really.

Walk into your average FLGS and start asking for the OSRIC section or ask if anyone wants to start up a game using the OSRIC ruleset, and you'll most likely get a lot of blank stares.

This is a wonderful question. What can be done to get OSRIC into FLGS and other outlets. And why haven't some (all) of the bigger self described "old school" publishers started using OSRIC as a publishing platform (now that the legal question no longer exists)? Just calling something "old school" doesn't give page number references out of OSRIC or the OGL (a gold mine of goodness). Also, can anyone publish OSRIC or just Lulu?

 

[Ariosto]

Well, I have heard that Castles & Crusades has visibility in other reaches -- but I bought my copy off the local FLGS dusty "remaindered" shelf. Then again, the geek-entrepreneurs had never even heard of Aces and Eights: Shattered Frontier, and Mutants & Masterminds was but vaguely on their radar. While they're stuck trying to unload 3E splats in their brick-and-mortar sandcastles, online retailers are sucking up dollars.

That they seem not to care makes their Quixotic position only the more comedic.

Fat Comic Book Guy is a stereotype with an unfortunate basis in reality.

To clarify: I tried to order a deluxe edition Aces & Eights at the FLGS, but my cash apparently was not green enough.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

I think the best thing to do would be to stock up on old AD&D 1st edition books and putting them on the same shelf as OSRIC based modules.

There are still lots of 1e DMGs and PHBs out in the secondary market -- and despite the fact that some eBayers or online stores try to sell them for around $30, they can be found in used bookstores for close to their original cover price.

If any brick-and-mortar gaming store was interested in selling OSRIC products, they could talk to the local used book stores and just let them know that they're interested in purchasing certain books whenever they come it. Lots of people do that, and if the buyer is proven to be reliable, the used bookstore is happy to have an instant turn-over of product.

HOWEVER, the profit margin for this is very slim. Most OSRIC modules are either print on demand or small press, which translates into a very high cover price for a thin black-and-white module or book. I'd say that a brick-and-mortar store would be very, very lucky to break even on such an endeavor. It would have to be a labor of love more than anything else.

With OSRIC based modules, used Basic 1e and 2e books and supplements and other retro-clones (I don't really include C&C in this because it's not any more "compatible" with 1e than 4e, ie, it takes much more time to convert than the straight-up OSRIC/Basic Fantasy style stuff), a game store could have an impressive little shelf.

 

[Ariosto]

I could get satirical, but who would know the difference? The business acumen at the FLGS is really that bad.

Expeditious Retreat Press, Goodman Games, and so on have not survived so long without grasping the facts of life of the distribution network. I reckon every publisher has more feet on the ground than our typical geek shopkeeper (who probably knows more about Spider-Man continuity than about basic inventory management).

I was working for a chain when GDW offered to replace returns of Twilight: 2000 with the new edition. Seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it? How much harder is it to pay net-30 on time and take the discount?

Where there's smoke, there's a doobie. That's ultimately why the FLGS is an endangered species.

 

[S'mon]

I don't really include C&C in this because it's not any more "compatible" with 1e than 4e, ie, it takes much more time to convert than the straight-up OSRIC/Basic Fantasy style stuff

That makes no sense. To convert C&C stats to 1e etc all you do is flip the AC so it descends from 10 instead of ascending, and ignore the bit about Primes. To convert BFRPG you also need to flip the AC. OSRIC/LL don't need flipping. Still, compatibility for all these games with 1e/OD&D/BECMI etc is close to 100%.

 

[nightraven]

To be profitable, OSRIC products would need to be run in quantity just like any other book. Thats why I don't understand why Goodman Games, or PPP for instance (who do good sized runs in the 100s I believe), don't jump at using OSRIC (its 1E, and its 100% legal). Those products would be so much more usable if they could refer back to the actual OSRIC document and include all the "good juicy IP" allowable in the OGL (that can't be used without it) giving actual page number references...how cool is that?

Is there some serious downside to using OSRIC that I'm missing here? Using OSRIC (which is now widely known to be the return of 1E) to publish 1E module should be a no-brainer, right?

 

[Maggan]

Is there some serious downside to using OSRIC that I'm missing here?

If there is a golden opportunity in publishing for OSRIC that you and not many others are seeing, either you should jump at it yourself blazing a path for others to follow, or ask yourself a tough question:

"Why am I not in the business of publishing OSRIC-compatible material?"

The reasons you come up with will probably be applicable to others as well.

That's the best I can come up with.

/M

 

[Filcher]

Well, I can't state the difference between Osric and AD&D, but I know that Goodman just launched an AD&D line.

Goodman Games

My understanding is that they are going to release all new (finally!) adventures soon.

As for referencing page numbers, I would be *really* hesitant as a publisher. Imagine: I publish a module, fully annotated with Osric page numbers. Osric does a new layout with spelling corrections and errata. Suddenly those 300 copies of my printed module are all wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

[Umbran]

To be profitable, OSRIC products would need to be run in quantity just like any other book. Thats why I don't understand why Goodman Games, or PPP for instance (who do good sized runs in the 100s I believe), don't jump at using OSRIC (its 1E, and its 100% legal).

As I understand it OSRIC has not been proven legal, and WotC has declined to comment. Unless and until WotC chooses to challenge OSRIC, it's copyright status is questionable. Supporting OSRIC is risky in that sense. If WotC does decide to pursue action against OSRIC, then anyone supporting it may have to destroy or rework their products. At least one 3rd party publisher has stated quite clearly on these boards that the thinks OSRIC is infringing, so that he won't touch it with a ten foot poll.

Whether or not the publishers feel that is a notable risk - 3rd party publishers jumped on the 3e bandwagon, and wanted to jump on the 4e wagon, because there was a virtual guarantee that the core rules would have deep market penetration - they could expect hundreds of thousands of people to buy those editions.

OSRIC offers no such expectations. It is "widely known" only if "widely" is "to very small number of people on the internet". I would not be surprised if the majority of the gaming community as a whole has never heard of OSRIC, much less acknowledged it as the phoenix rising form 1e's ashes. Putting work in to reference it may be wasted effort if OSRIC does not take off. I would imagine most would want to wait a bit and see how well OSRIC does before jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[JoeGKushner]

GROGNARDIA: OSRIC is Mine

Provides an interesting take on it. Apparently it's not 100% fully open and other games that follow the 'old school design' are. I'm not saying the old Grongnardia blog is 100% accurage or a master source of info on these things but from what I've been reading of his blog for a while, he seems well grounded in it.