Getting OSRIC/AD&D into FLGS and publishers

[Coldwyn]

Some of you seem to rate fandom and enthusiasm higher than ecological reality.
Aside from the debate about the legal assues OSRIC has or not, the size and financial positioning of the customer base isn´t very promising. As far as I can see, most old schoolers are more mature and mostly less prone to spent their cash on every new and shiny product that hits the market and these gamers have already owned many products and build up a large backlibrary to draw material and ideas from.
Also, what already has been stated and most OSRIC fans seem to ignore, is the fact that 3pp publishers would diminish their own fanbase by switching to OSRIC or other clones. TLG (for example) want to sell their C&C core books. As has beed written time and again, the money is mostly in the core rules, not in the modules, so why should a company like TLG promote the sales of another company, with just a slight profit gain? Doesn´t make sense. It´d be different if these companies could publish their own OSRIC core books under the OGL, but that´ll never happen.

 

[Fifth Element]

The fact that lawyers and owners of companies in the business were making statements of legality about OSRIC (casting doubt) is seriously unethical (and possibly illegal).

Take an irony point, sir.

If you want others to stop "defaming" OSRIC, perhaps you should stop "defaming" others.

 

[Remathilis]

Yes, for the most part. EXPR does have modules that are OSRIC compatible (some excellent) that are in stores. This publisher took the leadership in both moving forward with using OSRIC and in producing a high quality product. What OSRIC needs now is more publishers doing runs (rather then PODs) of OSRIC modules. That would allow for in store placement with a profit. Imagine if TLG, GG, PPP, EXPR etc. used OSRIC as a single platform (and all appeared next to one another on shelves) that would be "the return of 1E AD&D" to bookstores. Stick the OSRIC book next to these modules (you'd need to do an offset print run to get the cost down) so that the game and modules could be purchased together. I suspect the only thing stopping this natural evolution from occurring is the legal argument (which doesn't hold water when you look at it) and some serious egos. Mostly from those that poo pooed it a few years back. It would be difficult to imagine the Chanaults, for instance (maybe doing their modules in C&C and OSRIC).

Not. Going. To. Happen.

What's "holding it back" is the fact that the game its based is 30 years old, has no name-brand recognition ("OSRIC" doesn't quite hold a candle to "Dungeons and Dragon" in most gamer's lexicon), and is catering to a small niche of an already small niche (namely: people who play D&D who prefer 1e and wish to purchase a retro-clone rulebook).

Not. Going. To. Happen.

Seriously, as a niche item, it will make some good sales (anyone want to give me a figure as to the number of Lulu orders its taken? 100s? 1,000s?) but I don't think there is enough interest to make it a widespread phenomenon. There are too many people NOT interested (they preferred the 2nd edition rule revisions; they play 3e or derivative, they play 4e, they prefer another retro-clone, or another retro-inspired game, they own the 1e books and have no desire to "rebuy" the book again, etc) to make it viable. There is too much time and money to set up a supply chain, get distribution, and market for something that might not sell, has a potentially limited audience, and that WotC can kill with a dozen Cease & Desist letters followed by a lawsuit. (see: power cards/4e and Ema's character builder/4e).

Not. Going. To. Happen.

You're dreams of a AD&D 1e revival aren't realistic. Be happy that, after 20+ years, there is new AD&D compatible material being produced again. Even if its all PDF, POD, and small press sales, its THERE! That's something I don't think ANYONE dreamt possible in 2001.

 

[Ariosto]

The Troll Lords have their own thing going in C&C, and the differences between that and AD&D are significant enough to some to keep modules for one from being very desirable for use with the other. The niche market is mainly players of TSR-D&D and close-enough modern releases -- but that's still a long way from confining it to "OSRIC players". If one retains basic familiarity with the hobby's former lingua franca, then there are excellent scenarios to be had.

With that familiarity, I have found it easy to use old-style D&D modules with other fantasy games from Tunnels & Trolls to RuneQuest and beyond, and some can with just a little more work be used with SF games such as Traveller ("filing off the serial numbers" to fit the trappings of another genre of action-oriented adventure fiction).

I'm pretty sure, though, that the OSRIC rulebook is too costly to produce for wholesale without a significant ($50,000+) capital investment to get economies of scale in printing and binding. The "economy" edition would probably have to be about the same price on the shelf, and I can't see $100 working for the deluxe hardbound. Is there enough margin for the retailer and distributor to take their cuts? I really don't think so!

If your FLGS can -- and will! I wash my hands of 'businessmen' who won't lift a finger to take my money -- get something for you, then it might be nice to support it. Otherwise, there's the Internet, and cutting out the middle men is not necessarily a bad thing. Nobody is getting rich off "old-school" modules, unless it's the illustrators (and even they are probably giving price breaks for love of the game).

 

[Ariosto]

Not being a big business might contribute to longevity. The name Dungeons & Dragons is still current, but look at what has become of the game itself -- what took the generosity of the OGL and the work of fans to remedy. Not so many people are familiar with Tunnels & Trolls, and fewer know of John McEwan's Star Guard, but the games (and the SG miniatures) are still available from the producers after 34-35 years!

They have gone through editions, but those are less radical changes to my eye than what other games have undergone (and the classic T&T 5th has not been made extinct by edition "7.5".)

As a player, that's what matters to me: I can get the stuff, and so can someone who wants to get into it after getting turned on. I have no investment in helping a big company put out of production the products I like, replacing them with things less to my taste.

Whether it's Aces & Eights, Mutants & Masterminds or the latest great "old school" module, I'm going to get something of quality regardless of whether it's what the shops are selling. The product sells itself.

 

[Saracenus]

Ah Haaaaaaah! (see attached image, mm_twitter.jpg)

Mearls has run old school OD&D during his lunchtime game at WotC long before this tweet today.

It does not surprise me that he would get a copy of ORSIC. Though why he would need a copy since I am sure he has or has access to every D&D book in existance for his job.