Getting OSRIC/AD&D into FLGS and publishers

[jgbrowning]

For those who believe OSRIC is copyright infringement, would you please point to the explicit textual samples that supports such a view? I assume that if someone does think something is illegal they have a textural reason to believe such.

If you don't want to do such in public, my e-mail is josephbrowning@gmail.com

joe b.

 

[crazy_cat]

Isn't the main reason OSRIC products aren't in every FLGS the simple fact that they wont sell as they are not and will never be finacially viable for a typical FLGS to stock? They cater to a tiny tiny minority of gamers - a niche within a niches within an already niche hobby:

RPG Gamers - D&D Players - Older edition/Retroclone players - 1st Edition old schoolers - OSRIC players

Given the potential market size I'm quite impressed anybody is even bothering to produce material in PDF format quite frankly.

 

[Ariosto]

As to the Dangerous Journeys case, I think TSR was able to allege that Mr. Gygax was in violation of a contract giving up rights to material developed while he was an employee of the firm -- some of which TSR claimed had ended up in DJ/Mythus. If memory serves, Gary later said that he had offered to save TSR a considerable sum in the settlement by simply selling them the game. If that is so, then one might take the outcome as part of the cautionary tale of TSR's downfall. I do recall someone from GDW writing that the time and energy devoted to the suit certainly did not help the Workshop in trying to deal with other factors that were hitting it (and indeed the whole industry) hard at the time.

 

[Ariosto]

Crazy cat, I think you have misleadingly narrowed the niche and also put too much emphasis on the notion of something appearing in "every FLGS". Among the many things that my particular FLGS does not stock is Mutants & Masterminds -- but I would hardly take that as an indication that M&M "will never be financially viable for a typical FLGS to stock."

 

[crazy_cat]

Crazy cat, I think you have misleadingly narrowed the niche and also put too much emphasis on the notion of something appearing in "every FLGS". Among the many things that my particular FLGS does not stock is Mutants & Masterminds -- but I would hardly take that as an indication that M&M "will never be financially viable for a typical FLGS to stock."

My FLGS doesn't stock M&M either, or Pathfinder - both because there is no demand (I've asked as I was suprised, and a bit put out, to see no Pathfinder as this is what I am playing and plan to play now 3.5 has been 'upgraded' to 4e).

M&M is still a niche of a niche or RPG players:

RPG players - D20/OGL game Players - M&M (or Pathfinder or True 20 or Conan D20 or Babylon 5 D20 etc)

Or perhaps:

RPG Players - Superhero Games - M&M

Still a very small target market. It's simple economics I fear, stores stock what sells. I like old school D&D and I support Pathdfinder, but I don't expect to see them in every store.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

post? what post?

 

[nightraven]

Isn't the main reason OSRIC products aren't in every FLGS the simple fact that they wont sell as they are not and will never be finacially viable for a typical FLGS to stock? They cater to a tiny tiny minority of gamers - a niche within a niches within an already niche hobby:

RPG Gamers - D&D Players - Older edition/Retroclone players - 1st Edition old schoolers - OSRIC players

Given the potential market size I'm quite impressed anybody is even bothering to produce material in PDF format quite frankly.

Yes, for the most part. EXPR does have modules that are OSRIC compatable (some excellent) that are in stores. This publisher took the leadership in both moving forward with using OSRIC and in producing a high quality product. What OSRIC needs now is more publishers doing runs (rather then PODs) of OSRIC modules. That would allow for in store placement with a profit. Imagine if TLG, GG, PPP, EXPR etc. used OSRIC as a single platform (and all appeared next to one another on shelves) that would be "the return of 1E AD&D" to bookstores. Stick the OSRIC book next to these modules (you'd need to do an offset print run to get the cost down) so that the game and modules could be purchased together. I suspect the only thing stopping this natural evolution from occuring is the legal arguement (which doesn't hold water when you look at it) and some serious egos. Mostly from those that poo pooed it a few years back. It would be difficult to imagine the Chanaults, for instance (maybe doing thier modules in C&C and OSRIC).

 

[Doodles]

I honestly don't care about the legality of a game.
That's for the copyright's holders to decide.

If a game's fun, I'm going to play it.
OSRIC allows for fun game materials to be published? I buy, and play.
It's functional as a rules set, and available in print? I buy, and play.

End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Imaro]

Yes, for the most part. EXPR does have modules that are OSRIC compatable (some excellent) that are in stores. This publisher took the leadership in both moving forward with using OSRIC and in producing a high quality product. What OSRIC needs now is more publishers doing runs (rather then PODs) of OSRIC modules. That would allow for in store placement with a profit. Imagine if TLG, GG, PPP, EXPR etc. used OSRIC as a single platform (and all appeared next to one another on shelves) that would be "the return of 1E AD&D" to bookstores. Stick the OSRIC book next to these modules (you'd need to do an offset print run to get the cost down) so that the game and modules could be purchased together. I suspect the only thing stopping this natural evolution from occuring is the legal arguement (which doesn't hold water when you look at it) and some serious egos. Mostly from those that poo pooed it a few years back. It would be difficult to imagine the Chanaults, for instance (maybe doing thier modules in C&C and OSRIC).

Perhaps I'm not understanding the gist of your posts, but in all honesty, I enjoy C&C more than I enjoy OSRIC. And while I in no way begrudge those who prefer OSRIC to C&C, I don't know if I necesarily want TLG devoting resources to a game system I don't play.

I guess more specifically I'm wondering what benefit would TLG get from expending the resources to publish modules for OSRIC when they have a system and fans of said system. I'm sure if it was profitable they probably would, but I've got to wonder if they should be concerned with producing material for another system when fans of their system are still awaiting certain releases.

You seem to prefer OSRIC, and that's great but, IMHO, you haven't really presented a compeling argument as to why those of us who enjoy other retro-clones by other comapnies would want everything to suddenly become OSRIC-centered...

As far as the legality issue goes, I'll just say IMO, it's easy to be an armchair lawyer when you're company/livelihood/etc. isn't on the line. I don't feel stating one's opinion about the legality of a game system is "slander", especially when no definitive answer is forthcoming. But moreso the choice to support or not support a company is a purely business decision, and if there is even a question of legality in one's mind (as has been evidenced by more than one company concerning OSRIC)... I see nothing wrong with taking the prudent road and choosing not to stake any part of one's livelihood on said company. In the end TLG, GG and any other retro-clone publisher doesn't owe the publishers of OSRIC anything, so I fail to see how stating their feelings concerning it's legality or choosing not to support it is in any way wrong.

 

[ggroy]

There's always the option of "outsourcing" to a third party company, the conversion of TLG or GG modules to OSRIC. The third party company takes on all the risks of doing the conversions and publishing the modules. Though for such a venture, I would imagine TLG and GG having some final say as to whether they want a particular module conversion being released or not.