Getting Out of the Dungeon (Or, "Help! I'm a DM who uses nothing but dungeons!")

[JoeGKushner]

Be aware though that lack of personification in these threats can be unsatisfying for some players.

But that could be said for any threat.

"Another horde of nameless minions?"

"Another dragon?"

"Another demon lord?"

Not every player will appreciate every adventure and while the ideal game is to have every player firing on all cylinders, sometimes it's not going to happen.

 

[Mark]

After some reflections on my DMing, I realized something: 97% of what I throw my players against takes place in some sort of dungeon or underground location. Sure, it's easy to throw together, and simple enough to define the constraints.

But as fun as dungeons are, I need a bit more variety! My lack of experience with things like wilderness adventures, though, leaves me with a complete lack of ideas. Any advice for a DM with even more trouble getting out of dungeons than his PCs?

Thanks!

Take baby steps. You are comfortable with constructing dungeon, so try to design your next town with a dungeon in mind.

Excellent advice!


Yup, make a town. Make a player map for that town with the things they would already know, particularl some sort of headquarters for them (maybe several if they like to spread out, like a boarding house, tavern, inn, maybe one has a shack of his own, etc.). The types of business they would use most often should be labeled on their map, armorer, weaponsmith, general store, etc. Then the fun part begins as you add in the "lower levels" like the temple cult, the underbelly slums, the drug lords and usurers, the political wheelers and dealers, the teamsters, the bazaar, the various guilds, and whatever else you can think of that might be a challenge for the players. One major difference between the town and the dungeon is that they can't just kill things and leave the bodies strewn all over the place.

 

[Rechan]

First bit of advice: Don't overlook the trees for the forest. You're familiar with dungeon design and creating those encounters. But you can easily use that same design for non-Undreground locations by simply looking at everything like a Dungeon:

Just expand the notion of a "Room" from a single physical ROOM, and you have a series of tightly linked encounters. I.e. Dungeon.

Honestly, cleaning out the Thieves Guild's headquarters with a frontal assault? Dungeon. Haunted warehouse or library where the PCs need to get something (either an old crate or information)? Dungeon. Scaling the cliff roost of harpies who kidnapped the local Noble and his entourage for supper? Dungeon.

Hell, a forest full of fog, with dense thickets or brush (perhaps influenced by druids or fey) = Dungeon.

Use your existing talents and just expand the backdrop.

 

[Rechan]

Next, I'm going to assume your dungeon design is usually 'go in, hack things apart/get the dingus, get out'. I'm going to bet that usually it's going into hostile territory and having no qualms about using violence.

So how about this: Capers. "We need you to get in there and steal this thing. But they can't know it's been stolen." This works if over half your party has social or stealth skills; a group of unintellgient brutes only have a hammer and everything looks like a nail.

I remember there is an adventure that came out at the beginning of 3e called "Three Days to Kill". It just consists of hte PCs being hired to break up a business meeting between a cult and a bandit king. They don't have to slaughter everyone, but just make sure the meeting goes south to ruin any alliance. A situation like that works great.

You could even give them a very open-ended task. "Look, we just need you to bring evidence This guy is a criminal/we just need you to bring him into justice." So now, the PCs can go about framing/investigating OR bountying the guy in any way they want - they could set up an ambush. They could storm his place. It's up to how they conduct it.

Another option: Cons. I once ran a campaign where the party were traveling gypsy con artists. You just let the players take control and go! But this really depends on the party.

Defend the Town: The Party is on the Defensive, having to fortify and defend a town from an onslaught of some kind.

Or battling pirates on a large lake/river.

As the above post, using Dungeons for other environments, use the same plots and just apply them elsewhere. I'm SURE you've done the "Bad guys are going to engage in a ritual to do something bad". Well, instead of putting them in a dungeon, they could instead have several sites in a forest, or several tenement rooms inside a district, and the goal is finding/getting rid of the ritual in a certain time limit.

Finally, don't discount the greatness of random encounters on the road. Not just fights/ambushes, but encounters involving travelers or monsters looking to make deals, odd occurances, etc.

 

[Snoweel]

But that could be said for any threat.

"Another horde of nameless minions?"

"Another dragon?"

"Another demon lord?"

I think you're confusing lack of personification with lack of characterisation. A nameless combatant is still personified, as long as they display humanlike characteristics (including speech, emotion or even just a humanoid shape).

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think you're confusing lack of personification with lack of characterisation. A nameless combatant is still personified, as long as they display humanlike characteristics (including speech, emotion or even just a humanoid shape).

I think you're confusing lack of player enjoyment by lack of personification with lack of player enjoyment by same old same old.

 

[Snoweel]

I think you're confusing lack of player enjoyment by lack of personification with lack of player enjoyment by same old same old.

You're the one who suggested lack of personification in environmental conditions had anything to do with repetition of threats.

Players may well not enjoy the same threats repeated over and over again (I don't imagine many people would), but that's got nothing to do with their inability to strike back at the weather.

Do you know what 'personification' means?

 

[JoeGKushner]

You're the one who suggested lack of personification in environmental conditions had anything to do with repetition of threats.

Players may well not enjoy the same threats repeated over and over again (I don't imagine many people would), but that's got nothing to do with their inability to strike back at the weather.

Do you know what 'personification' means?

"But that could be said for any threat."

And then I used examples of OTHER threats. Threats that, you know, can be unsatisfying for some players.

Do you know what "any threat" means?

 

[Snoweel]

"But that could be said for any threat."

And then I used examples of OTHER threats. Threats that, you know, can be unsatisfying for some players.

Do you know what "any threat" means?

Ah I see what you've done.

I still don't see the relevance though. My caveat was specific to the threat you mentioned (environmental). Rarely do we see discussion of how environmental threats play out at the table and so little understanding of why they mightn't work for a certain group so I thought it was relevant.

I understand your examples of repetitive threats not satisfying some (most?) players but it does seem to be needlessly stating the obvious (which is why I assumed you were trying to say more than you were, I mean, why state the obvious?)

Anyway, one dragon or demon or orcish chieftan is easily distinguishable from another merely through characterisation; it is less easy to repeatedly throw the weather at the PCs and have it remain interesting.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Rarely? There were whole books discussing environemtnal issues in the 3.5 game. Previous editions had numerous books on the most favored of hostile environments, the old water (including DMR books like of Ships and Seas), as well as numerous adventurers that placed the party in danger not only from, say the Sea Devils in the Monstrous Illustrated series, but also the environment they hailed from. There was always the problem of resource consumption, or worrying about the magic being dispelled, or having the proper spells and how they worked in that environment at the players knowledge.

In addition, part of the 4e 'charm' is using the environment itself as part of the conflict.

In various fictional series, such as Crown of Stars by Kate Elliot, there are numerous examples of the environment providing as much of a problem to the characters as the foes they face.

Mixing it up can lead to some interesting opportunities.

Is it true that it might be not for all players? Sure. Is it true that combat itself, for some players, especially those who prefer the role playing aspects, might not be for all players? Sure.

So once again I note, "Not every player will appreciate every adventure and while the ideal game is to have every player firing on all cylinders, sometimes it's not going to happen."