Getting Rid of Level Drain

[Enkhidu]

I dont understand why people on this thread arent understanding me.

I 'always' get rid of the permanent aspect, you CANNOT lose a level from energy drain.

All energy drain does in a normal campaign is the following:

for the next 24 hours you have penalties
-1 to all skill and ability checks
-1 to attacks
-1 to saving throws
-1 effective level (for level checks only)
-1 spell from your highest level (characters choice which is lost)

These penalties stack
after 24 hours you have to make a fort save dc 10 + 1/2 attackers hd + attackers cha mod or lose a level

Now, I toss out the last part about loseing a level. I keep saying that over and over again.

The actual energy drain isnt so bad, it is just another type of damage. Yes it is scary, but it isnt horrible. It mainly just makes the monster different in certain ways.

Like I said, it is no different than poison or a disease. They are the same mechanic. If you just get rid of the loseing a level part then ther are no problems, and it is easier to keep track of than ability damage.

No hd loss, no level loss, no exp loss, no permanently bad things. No problem

Just think of it like a poison that happens to come from the negative material plane. Positive energy based undead would have a similar ability.

Most characters live on the prime, which has bits of every plane. People have a mix of both positive and negative energy. Too much of either is very bad for you. So even a positive energy creature could give you something akin to energy drain, it'd give the same penalties but be called something else, and possibly cancel out the negative energy drain. Would be a cool mechanic, add flavor, and still keep things easy.

You know, I never really looked all that closely at the standard negative level rules until now, and I have to say that your method works well enough if you dump the permanent aspect. It didn't occur to me til now exactly how much a misnomer a "negative level" is in 3/3.5.

I do wonder, however, exactly what a 3.5 standard permanent negative level would be like - would you have to recalc an actual new level? or do you simply permanently maintain the on the fly negatives?

 

[Scion]

well, in the 3.0 book they do some crazy exp loss stuff ;/ Just plain stupid in my not so humble opinion so you actually go down a level for real. No fun there. Dont know if it was changed for 3.5 but I doubt it.

 

[Dunjin]

I don't remember exactly--I never read it thoroughly because I silently vowed never to use it. But I seem to remember something like losing enough XP to take you to the previous level + 50% of the level you lost. So if you were level 5 (and had 10,000xps) and lost a level, you were now at level 4 with 8,000xps and would need 2000 to get the level back.

But I could be wrong.

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

You could also keep the whole "Turns PC's into this type of undead" if reduced to 0 levels from negative energy levels. I would also make it so that PC's get to make a save for EACH negative energy level every 24 hours to remove it. But I'd never make it permanent.

I remember too well AD&D 2nd...wraith touches you, BAM you've just been reduced a level. Kinda rediculous.

Calrin Alshaw

 

[Scion]

. I would also make it so that PC's get to make a save for EACH negative energy level every 24 hours to remove it.

Umm.. they already do.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I use CON drain for all undead level drains.

(and for blood drain I make that a STR drain first, then a CON drain once STR is reduced to 0).

(For undead level draining powers I used to use permanent CON drain, but having read Enkhidu's idea I'll use it as temporary unless an appropriate ST is failed after 24 hrs, at which point it becomes permanent.)

Cheers

 

[ciaran00]

For most players and DMs, losing a level is just the pits - not just because its a pain to lose something you worked hard for, but because the mountain of things affected by the loss: BAB, Saves, Skills (especially for Rogues), Spells per Day, Spells Access period, level dependent class abilites, etc. While Ability scores do still affect a lot of these items, they affect less of them.

A reversible system (which 3.5e should have worked out but didn't) is a better solution than getting rid of level drain (also remember temporary neg levels are just -1 to a few things). Also, if you don't like level drain all that much, then don't use it-- have undead do massive damage. I have to also guess that the first poster may have a hard time killing his/her players as a DM.

We have eradicated random character generation rules and a skill system that is prone to "history". Class-ness and cross-class-ness is decided by total levels, and skills knocked off due to level loss are adjudicated by me... I just take the skills out that the players have been using the least. The rest takes about five minutes to calculate. If it helps (it probably doesn't) I am on the opposite side of this argument: negative levels turn into lost levels within the day, period. Players don't get to save it away (the same as it was in 2e). Temporary ability drains are temporary as per their specifications. On a side note, I have an excellent in-campaign-character reason for undead draining stats, levels, etc (quantitatively changing the character... by his very numbers), so justifications for using these hideous abilities against my players come easy

ciaran

 

[nharwell]

My problems with Level drain are due to flavor more than mechanics. I can deal with having to completely recalculate characters every time they face undead (even though it's a pain!). But I have conceptual problems with vampires and wights "slapping the levels" out of people. Unless you justify it as some sort of amnesia-inducing attack (which should have huge roleplaying repercussions), it simply feels wrong -- at least to me.

 

[Urbannen]

Vampires shouldn't have a level drain with their slam attack. I can't think of any literature in which vampires had an enervating touch. They should just have their Con drain blood sucking attack. Once a victim is dropped to 0 Con, the victim dies and rises the next night as a vampire spawn. Which is the way it happens in all the movies.

 

[danzig138]

I dont understand why people on this thread arent understanding me.

I understand you; that's how I've been doing it for a while. Seems to work pretty well. My players are far less bothered by the penalties from negative levels than they are by the thought of actually losing a level.