Getting Rid of Level Drain

[Terath Ninir]

I can see where you're coming from Scion, but I've been throwing undead at my players in the usual 3e quantities. A group of 6 wights that could all do 2d12 drain could potentially be a TPK, even if part of the damage is subdual.

Now, I'll admit that even 4d6 hp drain might not be scary enough for a vampire, but you could boost that up for them. You could have a base of 4d6 drain, with an extra d6 for every 4 or 5 levels. That would definitely get them up to the intended level of fear from folklore.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I like the idea of life-stealing. I think you should use 1 level=1d12; that is the size of an undead's hit dice, approximately equal to the 2d6 you are using, and anyway there aren't enough uses for d12s.

You might want to continue to call them negative levels with regard to magic and healing; normal cure spells don't touch them, but restoration spells that remove negative levels would. After 24 hours the character makes a save; if successful, the stolen hit points are converted into normal damage. If not, the hit points are permanently drained, and only effects which would restore lost levels will get those hit points back.

As regard to vampires, well... with them dominating everyone in sight, negating damage with their damage reduction and fast-healing the rest; considering the damage they do via their slam attacks, not to mention stealing 2d12 hp with every hit... aren't they scary enough as it is?

 

[SkidAce]

In first edition we changed level drain to permananent hp loss equal to the HD when you gained a level.

So the fighter got hit by a wight, failed a save vs death, and permantly lost 1d10 hp.

Was loads of fun for my group because they kept their abilities...so there was no "lost knowledge" to explain....but they lost life force and were very fragile from fighting undead. Restoration magic worked as normal.

Too many undead fights and.......they gave in to the dark side...muhahaha.

Might not work well in 3rd ED, but it's food for thought.

 

[ciaran00]

Sometimes, however, a negative level is worse than losing a level. A PC might lose 4 skill points to a lost level, where a negative level will impact all skills. Same with saves, you rarely go up in all three saves at the same time.

PS

Totally correct... negative levels are usually worse than the actual level loss that may come a day later.

ciaran

 

[ciaran00]

Back to level drain. I like the idea of hit point drain, I think. Doesn't seem to balance in severity with negative levels, but it makes sense.

Hey, you can go the other way too... instead of level draining (ie: penalising your PCs) have the undead GAIN abilities instead. Equally as scary without the loss.... just a suggestion.

ciaran

 

[KarinsDad]

That sounds interesting. Do you have these rules posted somewhere?

Here you go.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1241080#post1241080

 

[Terath Ninir]

I like the idea of life-stealing. I think you should use 1 level=1d12; that is the size of an undead's hit dice, approximately equal to the 2d6 you are using, and anyway there aren't enough uses for d12s.

Now *that* is an argument that will win me over! One of the things I like least about the new weapon size rules is what they do to the poor d12.

You might want to continue to call them negative levels with regard to magic and healing; normal cure spells don't touch them, but restoration spells that remove negative levels would. After 24 hours the character makes a save; if successful, the stolen hit points are converted into normal damage. If not, the hit points are permanently drained, and only effects which would restore lost levels will get those hit points back.

Hmm. I'll have to think about that. I wouldn't call them negative levels though, that would be too confusing. It is a worthwhile idea, though.

As regard to vampires, well... with them dominating everyone in sight, negating damage with their damage reduction and fast-healing the rest; considering the damage they do via their slam attacks, not to mention stealing 2d12 hp with every hit... aren't they scary enough as it is?

You have a good point there, too. I suppose I'm still too used to all the previous editions of D&D, where vampires just weren't very scary. I guess d12's are plenty for their energy drain.

 

[kirinke]

huh

i never really understood those neg-level things. they were a pain in the rump, even playing the compy-games like baldur's gate and icewind dale. %_%.

Anyway, the hit point thing sounds a lot more reasonable. In all the movies and books I've read, undead never really affected the knowledge/exp of the person.

What they do tend to do is drain energy (hit points), scare the blinkity-blink out of you (fear) and some non-corporeal undead can drive you nuts.

hmmm
depending on the level of the undead wouldn't the character who was attacked be also subject to a sanity check? From my standpoint, I would probably be driven temporarily catatonic if a ghost or wight drove their non-corporeal fist into my chest and sucked a bit of life-force out of me.
You could add that as well. just for chuckles.

 

[SkidAce]

hmmm depending on the level of the undead wouldn't the character who was attacked be also subject to a sanity check? From my standpoint, I would probably be driven temporarily catatonic if a ghost or wight drove their non-corporeal fist into my chest and sucked a bit of life-force out of me.
You could add that as well. just for chuckles.

Nice....

 

[Altalazar]

I also have ALWAYS hated level drain. I thought it was stupid - almost like "erase four adventure sessions". It made no sense and there just wasn't anything good about it.

Really, when it came right down to it, in 1E/2E I just didn't "do" level drain monsters. If I saw one, I'd just leave.

So in my game, there is no chance they'll be permanent, though it may take some time to recover.

There just is no "fun" aspect to level drain. People play months and years of their lives building up a character and level drain can take ALL of that away in the space of a few minutes and that is no fun for anyone.