Ghostwalk question

[Vivictus]

I know that ghost in this campaign can't fly normally without the feats needed to accomplish it. However, can they move through water at their normal speel or do they face the same type of resistance? I am not sure (since they can't even fly) if they can walk through solid objects or not even. I recall reading that they couldn't (but can with a feat if I remember correctly) which is why I am asking this.

Also, the layout for creating ghost characters is pretty poor. I think they should have at least a page or two in there that states EXACTLY what powers a ghost does and doesn't have. Instead it's all over the first chapter and some of the stuff is not too clear. I really hope that there's a FAQ for this book real soon.

Also, are ghosts "required" to select a path or is that just for roleplay purposes?

Thanks.

 

[seankreynolds]

{I know that ghost in this campaign can't fly normally without the feats needed to accomplish it. However, can they move through water at their normal speel or do they face the same type of resistance?}

If incorporeal, a ghost can fly or move through water at its normal speed. If manifested, a ghost has the same limitations as a solid creature.

{Also, the layout for creating ghost characters is pretty poor. I think they should have at least a page or two in there that states EXACTLY what powers a ghost does and doesn't have.}

See page 163 for the ghost template; that gives you all of the info on what a person gets upon becoming a ghost. You don't gain any other powers unless you buy them with feats (normally by taking levels in the eidolon or eidonloncer class).

{Also, are ghosts "required" to select a path or is that just for roleplay purposes?}

That's purely flavor, it's just a classification system people familiar with ghosts came up with (though if you have several powers from the same path you start to manifest symptoms appropriate to that path).

 

[Vivictus]

Ok, that answered a lot. I didin't think to look in the Monsters section for the template. Doh! Also, I didn't notice the "fully" manifested part of the flying feats. Now it makes more sense.

I assume then also (I'll read more) that since it's incorporeal that it can also move through solid objects, though it can't see while in them, right?

In my campaign I think I am going to change the rules for the Calling. I am still going to have the Calling try to pull the characters in, but I don't want them to be "required" to eventually heed that call as the rules have it normally. I think I am going to keep the Calling rule and modify it. I will allow ghosts to choose other "normal" classes instead of just the eidolon ones, and these will help offset the Calling. So, if a ghost wants to be totally immune to being forced into the Veil through level 20 then he'd have to mix his eidolon levels with normal levels so the eidolon ones don't automatically surpass the normal ones and force him to the Veil. However, this leaves the option open if the ghost wants to take more eidolon levels he can, but he risks the chance of being Called. I never liked rules in games that can cause instant death to a PC (even though they're easy to raise here) or limit them to very few options. See, this way they can choose to keep normal classes, but even if they don't, they can be Called, and when that happens, they can then be raised pretty easily.

Also, I noticed that Ectoplasm disperses in 10 minutes. It didn't mention any difference in the ectoplasm that dead ghosts leave behind, so in order to raise them as a ghost, I assume that the players will want to carry around some of that alchemical powder (forget what it's called) that preserves it for 10 days instead. Perhaps they should carry a LOT of it in case they are far away from Manifest or the player being raised wants to then lose a level.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. The template will surely help and now I know to be much more careful for the words "Fully Manifested".

Edit: Oh yeah, I will be reading many threads on the various boards about this and hopefully get enough information to create a type of FAQ to help people out who just asked the same questions I did. See, I read a book cover to cover generally so I am only in the City area now, and just finished the history of Manifest, so I hadn't gotten to the ghost template yet. I thought the chapter one covered everything and was confused.

 

[Vivictus]

Oh yeah, and what's the ECL of a PC ghost? Considering the type of campaign I assume it would be lower than what it would be in a normal campaign since often you will be dealing with other incorporeal creatures as well as those who can force you to manifest fully. I know it says in the template that it's the character level +1 but that seems (considering when this was actually written) like the other templates like in the Monster Manual, which don't work well for PC's at the same level.

 

[Vivictus]

Oh, and one more thing I wonder about... Ghosts are considered Outsiders, but it does not list Darkvision as one of their abilities in the template. Do they have darkvision from being a ghost or only if the main race they come from has it? I assume the latter since these outsiders are a bit different from normal ones, since normal ones can't even be raised without a wish or miracle anyway. Thanks.

 

[seankreynolds]

{I assume then also (I'll read more) that since it's incorporeal that it can also move through solid objects, though it can't see while in them, right?}

Correct, just like the normal incorporeal rules.

{Also, I noticed that Ectoplasm disperses in 10 minutes. It didn't mention any difference in the ectoplasm that dead ghosts leave behind, so in order to raise them as a ghost, I assume that the players will want to carry around some of that alchemical powder (forget what it's called) that preserves it for 10 days instead.}

Yes.

{Perhaps they should carry a LOT of it in case they are far away from Manifest or the player being raised wants to then lose a level. }

Heh.

{Edit: Oh yeah, I will be reading many threads on the various boards about this and hopefully get enough information to create a type of FAQ to help people out who just asked the same questions I did. See, I read a book cover to cover generally so I am only in the City area now, and just finished the history of Manifest, so I hadn't gotten to the ghost template yet. I thought the chapter one covered everything and was confused.}

The arrangement is a bit odd, I admit.

As for the ECL, in a campaign around Manifest (where the ghosts are fully manifested) I'd have them at ECL 0. They do have some advantages compared to non-ghost characters, but I don't think they're worth a full +1 because of the drawbacks they have as well.

For the darkvision thing, the template does not grant it (so a dawrf ghost has it, a human ghost does not).

 

[Vivictus]

Thanks for the replies so far. I have another question now though. When fully manifested, how do the Ghost Ride and other possession type feats work? Since the ghosts are "solid" creatures at this point, does this prevent these feats from working? It seems a bit odd since there's mention of hiring living folk to allow you to enter them with these feats, but at the same time, if you can do this while fully manifested do you still enter their body or do you fall prone or catatonic while doing this?

Thanks!

 

[seankreynolds]

Being fully manifested doesn't affect your ability to use those feats. When you possess the target, your body (whether manifested fully or incorporeal) vanishes. A ghost's body isn't really a true body, it's just a ectoplasmic construct automatically created by the presence of a bodiless soul, and when that soul enters a meat body, the ectoplasmic construct is no longer needed, and vanishes.

 

[Alzrius]

For the darkvision thing, the template does not grant it (so a dawrf ghost has it, a human ghost does not).

Sean, the web enhancement seems to disagree with you. Two of the playtest characters, are a ghost human and a ghost elf, and both have 60' darkvision.

 

[seankreynolds]

Ah, see, the spreadsheet I used to build those characters automatically gives any creature darkvision if you set its type to "outsider" (it doesn't understand how templates work and about ability inheritance). I didn't catch that, they technically shouldn't have it.

Good eye!