Giant Ant Worker, CR 1??

[Darklone]

I think the biggest problem of the workers: You can´t get away if the PCs are in bad shape. Climb speed and huge movement speed will get you anywhere.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I would actually agree with you. When I run the giant ant worker through my Open Gaming Combat Simulator program (http://www.superdan.net/softwin.html), 3 of them are evenly matched in melee against a 1st-level NPC Fighter. At low levels, that's a very good indicator of CR, i.e., CR 1/3 is about right.

How many of them are evenly matched in melee against a 1st-level gnome illusionist? I'm curious if your program accounts for all the attributes of the critters.

 

[pawsplay]

They're fast, immune to the sleep spell, they can function without light thanks to scent, and have a solid AC and hit points. I'd say they are equivalent to a level 1 NPC, at the least.

 

[Slaved]

Challenge rating is based off of a party of the iconic four. Or at least it is supposed to be.



With an initiative modifier of +0 I would expect at least half of the party to go first. If the guy with the sword goes first it could easily be dead. If both of those who go for it hit it then it is almost certainly dead.

Since its damage and attack bonus are so low it would likely have to attack the party wizard in order to be able to do much damage to the party at all. Assuming that the wizard survives the attack the ant is likely dead before it gets another action.

This could easily be done with no resource use even at level 1.

That would seem to suggest that a challenge rating of less than 1 is more appropriate.

An orc hits harder and more often but is easier to hit and has less hit points. Its challenge rating is 1/2.

 

[Quartz]

ChalleWith an initiative modifier of +0 I would expect at least half of the party to go first. If the guy with the sword goes first it could easily be dead. If both of those who go for it hit it then it is almost certainly dead.

At AC 17 it's not that easy to hit.

 

[Slaved]

Even with only a 14 strength and a +1 base attack bonus with nothing else that gives a 35% chance to hit.

Make that a 16 strength and add in weapon focus and that becomes a 45% chance to hit. Or just add in rage to the first example to make it the same 45% chance to hit but then actual expendible resources are being used.

If we add in a charge that increases each percentage by 10% as well.

A 35% - 55% chance of simply ending the encounter with a below average damage roll is ok right?

The wizard with an 8 for strength and a heavy crossbow has a chance to end this encounter as well, it is just a very poor chance.

 

[Mistwell]

I'd give it max rather than average hit points, and that should be enough to adjust it to CR1 if it's bothering you.

Ants are strange buggers. They do seem to continue to fight on even after they take damage from something that should have killed them.

This thread just reminded me of the Temple of Apshai.

 

[frankthedm]

I'd give it max rather than average hit points, and that should be enough to adjust it to CR1 if it's bothering you.

Their damage output is just not up to snuff at CR 1. They do have some nice immunities, so they should not have to compete with the raging orc barbarian swinging +7 to hit 1d12+9 damage, but +1 to hit and 1d6 damage is pathetic for something that should provide a challenge to a first level party.

Ants are strange buggers. They do seem to continue to fight on even after they take damage from something that should have killed them.

Die hard as a bonus feat could work if HP was the issue.

 

[darthkilmor]

I'd give it max rather than average hit points, and that should be enough to adjust it to CR1 if it's bothering you.

Ants are strange buggers. They do seem to continue to fight on even after they take damage from something that should have killed them.

Well, my players are fairly powerful(40 point buy) so I already give all monsters max HP(to make it more challenging). For something this small though it doesnt seem like it'd be worth a bump in CR just for extra HP.

Interesting point about them continuing to fight on, maybe an effect like, they don't stop just because they're dying, they just operate as if they were disabled until they actually die. Hmmmmmmm<rubs evil hands together>.
(edit: Doh, totally forgot about diehard feat!!)

 

[darthkilmor]

Also, could a Giant Ant disarm with its bite attack? Would a bite attack be considered a light weapon?