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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8240915" data-attributes="member: 22779">Now, the play time assumption I will agree with.  We presume MUCH shorter sessions now than back in the day.  I know 3e presumed 20 levels in one year of gaming, although, honestly, I never met anyone who actually met that and it certainly wasn't my experience, but, is 5e based on the same assumption?  I don't remember seeing that for 5e.  And, again, it certainly isn't my experience where we're basically bumping around 10th level, or so, after a year of weekly 3 hour sessions.See, sure, I agree that your thief and you MU (outside of some big booms) isn't doing a lot of damage.  But, you've got three fighters and a cleric in your six person party - that's the assumption.  Or, three fighter types anyway.  All of them are double specialized for +3/hit and +3/damage from 1st level.  Even presuming a 17 strength, and, frankly, again, something I never saw in AD&D was a fighter type that didn't have percentile strength (hey, we were pretty young back then - sue me. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> ) that ogre with a 5 or 6 AC was getting hit 50% of the time, even from 1st level characters.And, yes, I did say 2 fireballs, I didn't know I had to mention two MU's.  Heck, I almost never saw a single classed thief in 1e.  Why would you bother?  Everyone went MU/Thief and then we often had a straight MU in the party.  At the levels where you are doing the G series, thieves and MU's had the lowest xp requirements in the game.Never minding things like wands of fire and scrolls.  The game assumed 10 magic items per PC after all.  Don't believe me?  Then why are paladins strictly forbidden to have more than 10 magic items?  If that limit was never reached, it's not much of a limit is it?  And, to be honest, we played a lot of Gygax modules, which were absolutely dripping in magic items.  But, yeah, going back to the Giants thing - two fireballs pretty much cuts most of the baddies in half, if not outright kills them - and the fighter types play mop up with bows.  And, no, a "slight distraction" didn't spoil casting.  You had to take damage.  Never minding that gaining surprise in that specific encounter wasn't exactly difficult.  I totally agree that 1e's lethality was due to things that bypassed HP.  Totally agree.  My point was that outside of those things that bypassed HP's - Save or Die, that sort of thing - AD&D wasn't all that lethal.  I know that I was absolutely shocked when 3e rolled around and I had to actively try not to kill PC's with damage.  It was so easy.  A single orc in 3e could do over 30 points of damage in a single hit.  An orc could outright kill 2nd and 3rd level PC's with a lucky die roll.  And, when you toss in 10 orcs into an encounter, that lucky die roll came around more often than not.</blockquote>

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