Geoff Watson
First Post
Arcane Runes Press said:
Sounds more like it's to be a spotlight hog.
Anyway, a warforged bodyguard sounds like a bad idea for a deaf person. Warforged don't have lips, so I think they would be difficult to lip-read.
Geoff.
Giving benefits to "flawed characters" / Is it ok to alter the Leadership feat
- Thread starter stevelabny
- Start date
Sounds more like it's to be a spotlight hog.
Anyway, a warforged bodyguard sounds like a bad idea for a deaf person. Warforged don't have lips, so I think they would be difficult to lip-read.
Geoff.
Arcane Runes Press
First Post
irdeggman said:
This is extremely easy to justify. The deaf bard has had years, if not decades of time to become acclimated to being deaf. The same will not be true of a character who becomes defeaned by a spell, or other effect.
stevelabny
Explorer
hawkeye, i was actually agreeing with argos point that a deaf character would have sonic immunity based on what i've read in monster descriptions recently, but upon rereading the steel predator entry in Fiend Folio it says
"deaf: ...immune to language dependent effects and sonic effecs dependent on hearing"
Is there a way to tell which sonic effects would be dependent on hearing and which woudlnt?
I'm trying to google what happens when you put real deaf people in areas of loud noises, but having no luck. anyone else care to give an opinion on this?
SHOULD deafness = sonic immunity or resistance?
"deaf: ...immune to language dependent effects and sonic effecs dependent on hearing"
Is there a way to tell which sonic effects would be dependent on hearing and which woudlnt?
I'm trying to google what happens when you put real deaf people in areas of loud noises, but having no luck. anyone else care to give an opinion on this?
SHOULD deafness = sonic immunity or resistance?
stevelabny
Explorer
i see geoff already answered my question about sonic immunity, but where are those spells from? I'd like to read the descriptions to see how the differe from the sonic spells in the PHB.
the point about not being able to lip-read the warforged is valid. As for warforged not having lips, as there are no specific rules listed for this I would go with the lip-reading rule of a higher DC. but re-adjust it back to normal due to the familiarity with the speaker. Or , although it would be much harder to teach a blind person how to do sign language, it wouldnt be impossible, especially with years of practice.
irdeggman, there are some deaf people who can speak just fine, and since the PCs are supposed to extraordinary characters, thats something I dont see a problem with. And the blind character can easily know which way to face for the deaf character, all it takes is "face my voice". Again, OUT of combat or difficult situations, it shouldnt be very hard. As for the extra followers granted by leadership, i have the power to say that they wouldnt kick in until at least 6th level. And arcane press has already taken care of the explanation for the rules issue.
the point about not being able to lip-read the warforged is valid. As for warforged not having lips, as there are no specific rules listed for this I would go with the lip-reading rule of a higher DC. but re-adjust it back to normal due to the familiarity with the speaker. Or , although it would be much harder to teach a blind person how to do sign language, it wouldnt be impossible, especially with years of practice.
irdeggman, there are some deaf people who can speak just fine, and since the PCs are supposed to extraordinary characters, thats something I dont see a problem with. And the blind character can easily know which way to face for the deaf character, all it takes is "face my voice". Again, OUT of combat or difficult situations, it shouldnt be very hard. As for the extra followers granted by leadership, i have the power to say that they wouldnt kick in until at least 6th level. And arcane press has already taken care of the explanation for the rules issue.
I think the answer simple. A sonic based fireball isn't going to do 5d6+ worth of damage just to the ears. After all, getting hit in the arm doesn't necessarily kill a warrior. There are sonic based spells that don't cause any damage, but might cause other problems, like deafness or cause dizziness, confusion etc.. Just look at the spell descriptions. Deafnes in most cases is probably a secondary effect.
Hawkeye
Hawkeye
I like playing characters with limitations. The defects are one of my favorite parts of the Omega World d20 mini-game. Unfortunately, Deaf is not listed there to give a value as a basis for comparison as to what kind of beneficial ability (mutation) is roughly equivalent. It seems as if a feat-in-trade might be appropriate to counterbalance deafness, like Skill Focus Spot and/or Search as the character relies more on sight. Or, you could even give the character the Scent ability; although this seems more apropos for a blind character.
My suggestion is to apply all the rules for deafness. If the player really wants to embrace the condition for roleplaying motives, then the numbers really won't matter. Asking for special considerations like reduced spell failure percentages and reduced level requirements for Leadership so the character can have a special bodyguard just sounds like Munchkinism. A player who wants to have a limitation to give the character more CHARACTER doesn't really look for ways to get around or "buy off" the limitation with other benefits.
That's where I'm coming from, anyway. I chose not to have a very (combat) debilitating defect removed from my OW character (Partial Action Only) because it was part of the CHARACTER I had established.
My suggestion is to apply all the rules for deafness. If the player really wants to embrace the condition for roleplaying motives, then the numbers really won't matter. Asking for special considerations like reduced spell failure percentages and reduced level requirements for Leadership so the character can have a special bodyguard just sounds like Munchkinism. A player who wants to have a limitation to give the character more CHARACTER doesn't really look for ways to get around or "buy off" the limitation with other benefits.
That's where I'm coming from, anyway. I chose not to have a very (combat) debilitating defect removed from my OW character (Partial Action Only) because it was part of the CHARACTER I had established.
Never mind about the character balance issue for a moment. Such things can be adjusted.
Do you want one player to run two characters?
Is it OK for both of them, especially in combination, to be a constant rules headache and a burden to the party?
To me, neither of these are conducive to game harmony, and for that reason I wouldn't allow the bodyguard.
The deaf bard is just a weak character, as others have said, because she has high CHA with big social handicaps. Only you can say if this fits with the rest of the party and the tone of the campaign. If they are all high-concept gimps or even comedy characters (as I say, I have no idea of your tone) she might fit in perfectly.
Do you want one player to run two characters?
Is it OK for both of them, especially in combination, to be a constant rules headache and a burden to the party?
To me, neither of these are conducive to game harmony, and for that reason I wouldn't allow the bodyguard.
The deaf bard is just a weak character, as others have said, because she has high CHA with big social handicaps. Only you can say if this fits with the rest of the party and the tone of the campaign. If they are all high-concept gimps or even comedy characters (as I say, I have no idea of your tone) she might fit in perfectly.
stevelabny said:
If the character is of a family prominent enough to need bodyguards, word will get around. There's nothing more useles than a bodyguard with a known, predictable weakness.
Others have mentioned - with a metal mouth, does the warforged have lips to read?
Yes, and now you'll be seeing it in the movie that is your game - over, and over, and over again. Every single fight scene will be that fight scene.
If I were the DM here, my concern would be that the concept is "gimmicky". Gimmick concepts tend to get old and stale after a while. Maybe your player will like this for the long haul, but the repetition of the same problems over and over might wear. They might wear on the other players, too.
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Xaov
First Post
Well something else you'd have to take into considerations is if he did in fact try to heal himself of the problem, he/she'd be bound to have massive problems, for instance
If you are in a really dark room and suddenly go into the light, your eyes tend to hurt, now if you have been blind and now can suddenly see you are bound to have some problems
As for the character, I had an aunt who needed a hearing aid for a good portion of her life, she would typically keep it kind of low, but years later while getting a new one, the volume got turned up, and she could hear so much more, this in turn drove her to have some difficulty sleeping because she could hear so well now, so if the character got his deafness healed he would technically have some problems.
As for characters with flaws, maybe I am just a crappy RPer but in my opinion a chartacter with flaws such as these would just slow the game down tremendously, not something I would highly advise. It makes a gap in the party with them most likely not being able to communicate for lack of sign language, even if the character could speak how are they supposed to talk back. It just makes for too many slow down points IMO.
If you are in a really dark room and suddenly go into the light, your eyes tend to hurt, now if you have been blind and now can suddenly see you are bound to have some problems
As for the character, I had an aunt who needed a hearing aid for a good portion of her life, she would typically keep it kind of low, but years later while getting a new one, the volume got turned up, and she could hear so much more, this in turn drove her to have some difficulty sleeping because she could hear so well now, so if the character got his deafness healed he would technically have some problems.
As for characters with flaws, maybe I am just a crappy RPer but in my opinion a chartacter with flaws such as these would just slow the game down tremendously, not something I would highly advise. It makes a gap in the party with them most likely not being able to communicate for lack of sign language, even if the character could speak how are they supposed to talk back. It just makes for too many slow down points IMO.
