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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DaviMMS" data-source="post: 7020675" data-attributes="member: 6871301">Fighter flavor is generic on purpose, so you can build an archer and a sword and board warrior with the exact same chassis. One of the regrets that the 5th edition designers say to have, is making both the class and the subclasses generic, and that’s one of the reasons all most recent subclasses have a theme attached to it.Battlemasters and Champions can represent any kind of character that use weapons and don’t have magic. The recent subclasses try to represent a knight, an archer, a monster hunter, etc.That is one of the reasons I like scout, monster hunter and the cavalier more than I like the battlemaster. Even only some extra skills can already make your character feel different. Add that to one or two ribbons and even more is accomplished.One reason I see that people don’t like going fighter till 20th level is because the levels between 11th and 17th are pretty uninspiring for battlemasters and champions.I would probably go for 12th level looking for an ASI.13th level is only indomitable, that, IMO, is the same of a dead level.14th is another ASI, but by then you already had 4 ASI and your main stat is on max and you have your important feats. 15th level is a little better but still nothing to brag about. Battlemasters gain 1 superiority dice, two maneuvers you don’t care about and relentless. If you really care about two maneuvers and one superiority dice, you can go another class after 12th and get Martial Adept at 16th, and I don’t think relentless can secure a good level by itself. Especially after 1 garbage and 1 average level. Champions get only improved crits, that are fun but not that effective.16th is another ASI, one you would get anyway by multiclassing at 12th.17th is a good level with a second action surge and the ignorable 3rd use of indomitable.18th is good for champions, who get the only really good ability of the archetype, and bad for battlemasters, who only improve their dice to d12s.19th is yet another ASI. Another you would get by muticlassing.And 20th is the long waited 4th attack.So for me, the problems of not having single classed fighters is not because the class is bad, it is because you wait a lot after the 3rd attack for getting what you really want, while most classes give a lot even only by going 3 levels into it.Eldritch Knights don’t have that problem, as the 13th level is compensated by 3rd level spells, with a special mention to haste, and they have an interesting 15th level. So instead of having 5 average-bad levels between 12th and 16th, they have average-good levels.</blockquote>

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