GM Authority (Edited For Clarity, Post #148)

[doctorbadwolf]

If my pitch says humans only, to which you agree, and then you insist on an elf or a gnome or some nonsense, you can get the heck out of my basement. I have no time for bad faith players.

I mean, this isn’t what is proposed.

Even in the pretty clearly bad faith set up of the OP, the players hasn’t agreed to the all-human premise. The DM has proposed a game, not specified if it will be all-human, and one player said they want to play an elf.

 

[zarionofarabel]

I mean, this isn’t what is proposed.

Even in the pretty clearly bad faith set up of the OP, the players hasn’t agreed to the all-human premise. The DM has proposed a game, not specified if it will be all-human, and one player said they want to play an elf.

Bolded relevant parts for clarity...

I have a question regarding the extent of GM authority. I would like people to answer this poll to see what the gaming community thinks should happen in a particular situation.

The group gathers to play a new campaign...

The GM "I would like to play a campaign influenced by Game of Thrones. It will still have magic and monsters but the characters will be regular people in a medieval land."

Player #1 "Nice. I will play Sir Knight the Knightliest of Knights!"

Player #2 "Sure. I will play Lady Noble the Noblest of Nobles!"

Player #3 "Sweet. I will play Sir Sneak the Sneakiest of Sneaks!"

Player #4 "Okay. I will play Sir Elf the Elfiest of Elfs!"

The GM "No wait..."

Then the argument starts. The Player insists that they should be able to play an Elf because the core book says Elf is a playable race. Round and round it goes with The GM explaining that the campaign they want to run won't include Non-Human characters, the only intelligent race is Humans. The Player insists that The GM must compromise and allow them to play an Elf, because that's what they want to play, period. After arguing for a time The GM realizes that no agreement can be reached. Either the premise of the campaign gets scrapped and The Player gets to play an Elf, or The GM must kick The Player out of the group.

Should The GM be forced to accommodate The Player? Or is The Player going to have to find a different campaign where they can play an Elf?

Who would you side with?

The Player, who then gets to play an Elf.

OR.

The GM, who will kick the player out because they won't play a Human.

Yep. It was explained that it was a human only game.

 

[tetrasodium]

Bolded relevant parts for clarity...

Yep. It was explained that it was a human only game.

Your order of events is mixed up... that bolded bit skipped past step 1 "The GM "I would like to play a campaign influenced by Game of Thrones. It will still have magic and monsters but the characters will be regular people in a medieval land.". " Knightliest of Knights" is hardly something that fits under "regular people" & "Noblest of Nobles" definitely is not. It was not "explained" as a human only game, it was pitched as a game of regular people in a world "based on" game of thrones which is a world where there are a lot of things not quite human but closer to elf & things absolutely not human but close to elf.... you also have a gm with a poor grasp of the setting & unwillingness to learn.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Your order of events is mixed up... that bolded bit skipped past step 1 "The GM "I would like to play a campaign influenced by Game of Thrones. It will still have magic and monsters but the characters will be regular people in a medieval land.". " Knightliest of Knights" is hardly something that fits under "regular people" & "Noblest of Nobles" definitely is not. It was not "explained" as a human only game, it was pitched as a game of regular people in a world "based on" game of thrones which is a world where there are a lot of things not quite human but closer to elf & things absolutely not human but close to elf.... you also have a gm with a poor grasp of the setting & unwillingness to learn.

GoT doesn't have a lot of things 'not quite Human'.

It has the wights, which are quite simply reanimated Human corpses, it has the White Walkers, which appear extremely briefly in the preface of the first book and not again, leaving it unclear as to whether they are Human spellcasters or something else, and you have the Children of the Forest, who like the White Walkers are the stuff of legend, and who simply may be a different culture rather than a different race. Lastly, you have the nearly-extinct Giants.

Other than dragons, who were thought to be extinct, there really wan't anything else in Westeros that was really unusual; the nearly-extinct great wolves might qualify.

 

[Maxperson]

I mean, this isn’t what is proposed.

Even in the pretty clearly bad faith set up of the OP, the players hasn’t agreed to the all-human premise. The DM has proposed a game, not specified if it will be all-human, and one player said they want to play an elf.

It's pretty clear to anyone who has seen or read GoT that it's human only for PCs. It's not specified, but it's incredibly highly implied by "GoT."

 

[tetrasodium]

GoT doesn't have a lot of things 'not quite Human'.

It has the wights, which are quite simply reanimated Human corpses, it has the White Walkers, which appear extremely briefly in the preface of the first book and not again, leaving it unclear as to whether they are Human spellcasters or something else, and you have the Children of the Forest, who like the White Walkers are the stuff of legend, and who simply may be a different culture rather than a different race. Lastly, you have the nearly-extinct Giants.

Other than dragons, who were thought to be extinct, there really wan't anything else in Westeros that was really unusual; the nearly-extinct great wolves might qualify.

it also has unsullied, high valarian bloodlines & more. all of this came up in the thread when the OP was forced to admit that he hasn't read the books & doesn't want to as a defense for why he was unable to steer player4 towards one of those things.

 

[Crusadius]

it also has unsullied, high valarian bloodlines & more. all of this came up in the thread when the OP was forced to admit that he hasn't read the books & doesn't want to as a defense for why he was unable to steer player4 towards one of those things.

Like “game of thrones” does not mean ”is the game of thrones”.

The players are capable of asking for clarification if uncertain. The GM is allowed to clarify if the Players come up with character concepts that don’t meet the game concept they want to run.

 

[zarionofarabel]

it also has unsullied, high valarian bloodlines & more. all of this came up in the thread when the OP was forced to admit that he hasn't read the books & doesn't want to as a defense for why he was unable to steer player4 towards one of those things.

I'm not going to read the books because I don't like Martin's writing style, same reason why I'm not going to read Tolkien. Sorry that some players think they should always get to play whatever character they want no matter what, I clearly disagree with that position. Lucky for me there are no RPG police that are going to make me game the way you and others like you want me to game. As a bonus for you there are no RPG police that will force you to game the way I like to game. We all get to game the way we want! Yay for diversity!

If it makes any of the anti-me folks feel better, Player #4 got a slot in a kitchen sink D&D game at the shop cause I stole two players from that game. Apparently my new game is popular!

As a bonus for me especially, Player #4 was the only "D&D only" player, so I have also convinced the group to switch to a system that is not D&D! Yay! Diversity!

 

[Jd Smith1]

it also has unsullied, high valarian bloodlines & more. all of this came up in the thread when the OP was forced to admit that he hasn't read the books & doesn't want to as a defense for why he was unable to steer player4 towards one of those things.

The significance of a Valerian bloodline is simply that it was the mark of the royal bloodline of Westeros because of Valerian invaders. Otherwise, they are normal Human beings. Given the loss of the continent centuries ago, there's unlikely to be unsullied blood left.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I'm not going to read the books because I don't like Martin's writing style, same reason why I'm not going to read Tolkien. Sorry that some players think they should always get to play whatever character they want no matter what, I clearly disagree with that position.

Italics: This sort of heresy can only be atoned for with blood.
Bold: Absolutely. The first job of a GM is to manage expectations, and on occasion that means showing someone the door.