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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 7975607" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>What jumped out at me here is the combination of running pre-gen adventures for a decade, and your apparent tendency to look to the rules, not your own imagination for what should happen, combined with "writer's block" with PtbA. You also say you were playing PtbA "properly", which I suspect is actually a symptom of the problem.</p><p></p><p>People are saying play boardgames and stuff, but I think your problem is more severe than that, and if want to enjoy this stuff again, you need to dial things back, and focus on <em>being capable</em> of what you need to be able to do to DM. Which is "make things up". If you can't make things up, if you're reliant, in the way you've described, on pre-gen adventures and following rules, you've basically lost what it takes to actually be a good DM. I'm not saying that as a criticism - it's not something you sought to do, it's a potential result of the style of play you're describing.</p><p></p><p>As for the "losing enthusiasm when actually running stuff", I think that's a combination of not being able to "make stuff up" anymore, and having actually derived a lot of the enjoyment from learning and breaking in a system, rather than from the actual game.</p><p></p><p>I say this in part because whilst not as severe, I experienced a similar thing myself, quite a while back (when DMing 3E). I never got as far as you did along the path, but I could see how I could have. I tried taking a break and playing video games and boardgames and stuff, but it didn't really actually help. Instead I got briefly obsessed with the systems of those games, worked them out, then got bored with them too.</p><p></p><p>To break out of this cycle, I had to force myself to run mechanically simple RPGs, to not lean on the rules compulsively, and to write my own adventures only. PtbA could have been a solution if it was around then, but it sounds like you've the natural creative instinct of a DM, where you should be able to envision "what happens next" without any reference whatsoever to rules, and the rules are there simply to ensure consistency, fairness, and that everyone is on the same page. As such, PtbA will indeed, as you said, a disaster.</p><p></p><p>Re: PtbA, one thing I will say is some PtbA games are much easier to run than others. And it's okay to run them wrong. It's totally fine unless you're playing with some kind of PtbA veterans who are also kind of twerps. A PtbA game may be the solution, but it's not likely to be one of the exotic ones, or the original. Indeed, it's basically going to be Dungeon World or a Dungeon World hack.</p><p></p><p>So what I'd suggest?</p><p></p><p>1) Find a simple system that isn't mechanically too complex, and where you don't spend too long learning or engaging with the mechanics. You want to be kind of bored with the mechanics before you even start writing/running. If you're overly engaged with them, you're going to get the moment that ceases, and you'll lose all enthusiasm.</p><p></p><p>It's hard to say what game this might be for you, but I suspect a lot of modern OSR-style games fit this, Dungeon World played wrong fits this (Dungeon World played wrong is an absolute joy, note), some FATE sub-game might.</p><p></p><p>But I'd say the hell away from stuff like Shadowrun, fancy PtbA (like Legacy: Life Among the Ruins), City of Mist, Pathfinder or modern D&D of any kind, points-based standardized games like HERO/GURPS/etc. (they're vortexes - you can end up spending weeks or months building amazing villains and NPCs and settings and then have ZERO desire to run them - I speak from long experience), or just really any game where the mechanics are "exciting" or "complex", or even just really unfamiliar. Particularly stay the hell away from any game where writing up an enemy takes more than about 5 minutes (unaided by computers), mechanically.</p><p></p><p>If you do pick Dungeon World, just run it like D&D. Just get a D&D adventure (any edition will do, 1E and 2E work particularly well), don't obsess about anything, just the generalized monster stats instead of super-custom stuff (so really vanilla 1E adventures work well with the pre-existing Dungeon World list), and don't like keep looking at what's "legal" as move/hard move, go with your gut, or just run it like D&D with DW as the rules system (and changing who the focus regularly a bit like initiative). But I feel like an actual OSR may work better for you.</p><p></p><p>Again you want to be bored by the mechanics, because to get the DM skills you need back, you need to no longer rely on mechanics or being excited by them.</p><p></p><p>2) Write your own campaign. Keep it fairly simple. Don't give in to any impulse to make it ludicrously complicated or weird to make up for the simple mechanics of the game you've chosen. You can steal maps or even adventures from other places, but maybe re-write the stories and stuff if you do, and stick to older stuff, which isn't as tightly woven, story-wise.</p><p></p><p>3) Don't make up any house rules. No. Stop it. Stay away. Hit yourself on the nose with a newspaper if you even start thinking about house rules. You will be tempted to complicate a simple system with loads of "minor" additions and "tweaks" and "improvements" and false "streamlining" (which is actually the opposite).</p><p></p><p>4) Run the game, and try not to refer to the rulebook or rules if possible. Run it with some players you know, preferably, who are at least a bit sympathetic to your position. If you get it wrong, rules-wise, correct next session, don't obsess about it. The point here is that what you need to be doing is considering the dramatic situations, not considering the exact rules that govern them, and really not trying to use the rules as your guide. They're your servant not your master.</p><p></p><p>The more you can run in a way that makes sense to everyone without rolling dice or opening books, the better you'll be doing in escaping this.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I hope that helps or is at least interesting. I don't think this is a problem you can solve by ignoring it, or by playing other types of game (board, war, video), or by changing up your system in a simple way (you need to actively avoid mechanically complex systems). I think this is a case of re-training yourself. I'm pretty confident the above will work, but it is a lot of effort, and won't be pleasant at first. You won't have the thrill of exciting rules in action, or "solving a system", but that's not the issue, an inability to do and enjoy basic DM stuff like making stuff up is. You need to stop being guided by the rules, and start making stuff up on the spot.</p><p></p><p></p><p>(Btw, if people disagree with some of the points I'm making here, that's fine, but not everything I'm saying here applies to you or your game, it applies, I feel, from my experience, when trying to fix this SPECIFIC problem that the OP has experienced, and which I also have. It's fine to let the rules run things or use only pre-gen adventures if it's not giving you this problem.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 7975607, member: 18"] What jumped out at me here is the combination of running pre-gen adventures for a decade, and your apparent tendency to look to the rules, not your own imagination for what should happen, combined with "writer's block" with PtbA. You also say you were playing PtbA "properly", which I suspect is actually a symptom of the problem. People are saying play boardgames and stuff, but I think your problem is more severe than that, and if want to enjoy this stuff again, you need to dial things back, and focus on [I]being capable[/I] of what you need to be able to do to DM. Which is "make things up". If you can't make things up, if you're reliant, in the way you've described, on pre-gen adventures and following rules, you've basically lost what it takes to actually be a good DM. I'm not saying that as a criticism - it's not something you sought to do, it's a potential result of the style of play you're describing. As for the "losing enthusiasm when actually running stuff", I think that's a combination of not being able to "make stuff up" anymore, and having actually derived a lot of the enjoyment from learning and breaking in a system, rather than from the actual game. I say this in part because whilst not as severe, I experienced a similar thing myself, quite a while back (when DMing 3E). I never got as far as you did along the path, but I could see how I could have. I tried taking a break and playing video games and boardgames and stuff, but it didn't really actually help. Instead I got briefly obsessed with the systems of those games, worked them out, then got bored with them too. To break out of this cycle, I had to force myself to run mechanically simple RPGs, to not lean on the rules compulsively, and to write my own adventures only. PtbA could have been a solution if it was around then, but it sounds like you've the natural creative instinct of a DM, where you should be able to envision "what happens next" without any reference whatsoever to rules, and the rules are there simply to ensure consistency, fairness, and that everyone is on the same page. As such, PtbA will indeed, as you said, a disaster. Re: PtbA, one thing I will say is some PtbA games are much easier to run than others. And it's okay to run them wrong. It's totally fine unless you're playing with some kind of PtbA veterans who are also kind of twerps. A PtbA game may be the solution, but it's not likely to be one of the exotic ones, or the original. Indeed, it's basically going to be Dungeon World or a Dungeon World hack. So what I'd suggest? 1) Find a simple system that isn't mechanically too complex, and where you don't spend too long learning or engaging with the mechanics. You want to be kind of bored with the mechanics before you even start writing/running. If you're overly engaged with them, you're going to get the moment that ceases, and you'll lose all enthusiasm. It's hard to say what game this might be for you, but I suspect a lot of modern OSR-style games fit this, Dungeon World played wrong fits this (Dungeon World played wrong is an absolute joy, note), some FATE sub-game might. But I'd say the hell away from stuff like Shadowrun, fancy PtbA (like Legacy: Life Among the Ruins), City of Mist, Pathfinder or modern D&D of any kind, points-based standardized games like HERO/GURPS/etc. (they're vortexes - you can end up spending weeks or months building amazing villains and NPCs and settings and then have ZERO desire to run them - I speak from long experience), or just really any game where the mechanics are "exciting" or "complex", or even just really unfamiliar. Particularly stay the hell away from any game where writing up an enemy takes more than about 5 minutes (unaided by computers), mechanically. If you do pick Dungeon World, just run it like D&D. Just get a D&D adventure (any edition will do, 1E and 2E work particularly well), don't obsess about anything, just the generalized monster stats instead of super-custom stuff (so really vanilla 1E adventures work well with the pre-existing Dungeon World list), and don't like keep looking at what's "legal" as move/hard move, go with your gut, or just run it like D&D with DW as the rules system (and changing who the focus regularly a bit like initiative). But I feel like an actual OSR may work better for you. Again you want to be bored by the mechanics, because to get the DM skills you need back, you need to no longer rely on mechanics or being excited by them. 2) Write your own campaign. Keep it fairly simple. Don't give in to any impulse to make it ludicrously complicated or weird to make up for the simple mechanics of the game you've chosen. You can steal maps or even adventures from other places, but maybe re-write the stories and stuff if you do, and stick to older stuff, which isn't as tightly woven, story-wise. 3) Don't make up any house rules. No. Stop it. Stay away. Hit yourself on the nose with a newspaper if you even start thinking about house rules. You will be tempted to complicate a simple system with loads of "minor" additions and "tweaks" and "improvements" and false "streamlining" (which is actually the opposite). 4) Run the game, and try not to refer to the rulebook or rules if possible. Run it with some players you know, preferably, who are at least a bit sympathetic to your position. If you get it wrong, rules-wise, correct next session, don't obsess about it. The point here is that what you need to be doing is considering the dramatic situations, not considering the exact rules that govern them, and really not trying to use the rules as your guide. They're your servant not your master. The more you can run in a way that makes sense to everyone without rolling dice or opening books, the better you'll be doing in escaping this. Anyway, I hope that helps or is at least interesting. I don't think this is a problem you can solve by ignoring it, or by playing other types of game (board, war, video), or by changing up your system in a simple way (you need to actively avoid mechanically complex systems). I think this is a case of re-training yourself. I'm pretty confident the above will work, but it is a lot of effort, and won't be pleasant at first. You won't have the thrill of exciting rules in action, or "solving a system", but that's not the issue, an inability to do and enjoy basic DM stuff like making stuff up is. You need to stop being guided by the rules, and start making stuff up on the spot. (Btw, if people disagree with some of the points I'm making here, that's fine, but not everything I'm saying here applies to you or your game, it applies, I feel, from my experience, when trying to fix this SPECIFIC problem that the OP has experienced, and which I also have. It's fine to let the rules run things or use only pre-gen adventures if it's not giving you this problem.) [/QUOTE]
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