D&D 5E GM: Who Do You Target? [READ OP BEFORE VOTING]

[W'rkncacnter]

Since the BBEG does damage you take out the cleric, because it does not matter how much you damage anyone else, you can't take out anyone while she is still in the fight.

If you had conditions or other debilitating effects it could be different, but damage is useless with a Cleric in the fight.

okay, you take down the cleric. wizard replies with fireball, or power word kill, or anything in between depending on the party's level. you're dead.

The Fighter is a bad idea if they're 9th level or more as they will have have Indomitable and assuming that's not blown, could re-roll the Save.

except that "Even on a successful save, it is enough to take down any one of the wounded, near spent characters". indomitable is irrelevant. of course, the fact that indomitable is irrelevant is itself irrelevant because even if you kill the fighter your HP is explicitly low enough that any single one of the fighter's attacks could down you, so if anyone (ESPECIALLY the wizard) gets an angle on you you're most likely still screwed, but uh...you know...

So, it probably wouldn't work, but you drop the Cleric, get lucky with [...] the Wizard's spell

you still die. any (edit: primarily damage, as opposed to damage with control or something) save for half effect using a wizard's highest level slot (assuming the party is level 5 or higher - it IS a bbeg) is probably going to do as much as, if not more, damage then any single one of the fighter's attacks, even on a successful save.

EDIT: actually, i'm gonna make a table for this:

Spell/Character Level	Fighter Damage (no magic items, no feats, greatsword)	Fighter Damage (about level appropriate magic two-handed weapon, GWM after maxing strength)	Best Wizard Damage (failed save)	Wizard Damage (successful save)
3 (5)	2d6+4 (11)	2d6+4 (11)	28 (fireball/lightning bolt)	14
4 (7)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+6 (13)	31 (upcasted fireball/lightning bolt)	15
5 (9)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+16 (23)	36 (cone of cold)	18
6 (11)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+17 (24)	45 (chain lightning)	22
7 (13)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+17 (24)	62 (finger of death)	31
8 (15)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+18 (25)	62 (still finger of death)	31
9 (17)	2d6+5 (12)	5d6+18 (43)	140 (meteor swarm)	70

what i learned here is that GWM throws my assumption out of wack from levels 8 to 12, so if we assume this fighter has GWM and the party is around those levels then maybe you could tank the wizard's spell...maybe...

i did also assume the fighter's magic weapon gets some kind of damage boost apart from the base enhancement at the highest levels, mainly because i don't want to try to look for damage boosting magic weapons before that point. throwing those on could boost a fighter's single attack further, or level it out with the wizard once finger of death becomes available.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

okay, you take down the cleric. wizard replies with fireball, or power word kill, or anything in between depending on the party's level. you're dead.

except that "Even on a successful save, it is enough to take down any one of the wounded, near spent characters". indomitable is irrelevant. of course, the fact that indomitable is irrelevant is itself irrelevant because even if you kill the fighter your HP is explicitly low enough that any single one of the fighter's attacks could down you, so if anyone (ESPECIALLY the wizard) gets an angle on you you're most likely still screwed, but uh...you know...

you still die. any (edit: primarily damage, as opposed to damage with control or something) save for half effect using a wizard's highest level slot (assuming the party is level 5 or higher - it IS a bbeg) is probably going to do as much as, if not more, damage then any single one of the fighter's attacks, even on a successful save.

EDIT: actually, i'm gonna make a table for this:

Spell/Character Level	Fighter Damage (no magic items, no feats, greatsword)	Fighter Damage (about level appropriate magic two-handed weapon, GWM after maxing strength)	Best Wizard Damage (failed save)	Wizard Damage (successful save)
3 (5)	2d6+4 (11)	2d6+4 (11)	28 (fireball/lightning bolt)	14
4 (7)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+6 (13)	31 (upcasted fireball/lightning bolt)	15
5 (9)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+16 (23)	36 (cone of cold)	18
6 (11)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+17 (24)	45 (chain lightning)	22
7 (13)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+17 (24)	62 (finger of death)	31
8 (15)	2d6+5 (12)	2d6+18 (25)	62 (still finger of death)	31
9 (17)	2d6+5 (12)	5d6+18 (43)	140 (meteor swarm)	70

what i learned here is that GWM throws my assumption out of wack from levels 8 to 12, so if we assume this fighter has GWM and the party is around those levels then maybe you could tank the wizard's spell...maybe...

i did also assume the fighter's magic weapon gets some kind of damage boost apart from the base enhancement at the highest levels, mainly because i don't want to try to look for damage boosting magic weapons before that point. throwing those on could boost a fighter's single attack further, or level it out with the wizard once finger of death becomes available.

Fair enough - so my assessment that the guy is utterly doomed is even more correct than I thought it was!

 

[ECMO3]

okay, you take down the cleric. wizard replies with fireball, or power word kill, or anything in between depending on the party's level. you're dead.

If you take out the Wizard then the Cleric casts healing word on the Wizard, and the Wizard still casts "Fireball, or Power Word Kill or anything in between" AND in addition the Cleric also casts his own Cantrip or Channel Divinity or makes an attack.

As long as the BBEG relies on damage alone and there is someone in the party capable of healing, that is the member you need to take down first, because damage can't take out anyone out of the fight as long as there is a healer alive.

The thing you're missing is the phrase in the opening post on "significant healing" and how the 0hp floor plays into this. Unless you play with the optional instant death rule there is a 0 hp floor on any damage (and if you do play with the optional rule, that number is unreachable by just about any monster or damaging spell past tier 2). If the PC is at 1 hit point, it does not matter if the enemy attack does 1 damage or 100 damage, a single low level healing spell AFTER the party member goes down nullifies that attack. In this respect, if a PC is at 1 hp, the Cleric's 1st level healing spells are MORE powerful than the enemies high damage attack.

Healing Word, a 1st level spell, will bring a PC back from range and without the Cleric even using an action. Aid, a 2nd level spell, will bring back 3 downed characters. There is no math that will support targeting other members first as long as the Cleric is still up and has these spells available.

If you look at the table you posted:

If you take out the Cleric, at 17th level the BBEG takes 70 damage from the Wizard's Meteor Swarm (assuming made save which is probable with Legendary resistance).

If you take out the Wizard The BBEG takes 70 damage from the Wizard's Meteor Swarm plus another 10 or so from the Cleric's Spear with Blessed Strike. That assumes the Cleric does not have a good CD to use in this fight and does not want to give divine intervention a shot.

If the BBEG can't last one round against the rest of the party then he can't win regardless of who you take out, but making a poor tactical choice and taking out someone other than the Cleric does not change that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Ah yes, the good tactics of making a metagame point rather than take all actions to escape death.

 

[RoughCoronet0]

I’d down either the Cleric or Wizard, depending on initiative order, then when the Rogue or Fighter downs my creature, activate its Mythic feature to up the BBEG and have it use its Mythic Reaction to use the save attack again on the other caster. Then I watch as the two martials begin to panic as they face down a fully healed BBEG while their casters our down.

In all seriousness, it really depends. What kind of monster is the BBEG? What is its movements types and distances? What other actions, bonus actions, or reactions does it possess. Does it have access to spells, and has it used any already? If it has, has it cast enough spells to gauge whether the wizard has counterspell? Does it have Legendary Resistance, Legendary Actions, or Lair Actions. Any summon or minion features? Is it a Mythic monster?

What about personalities and ideals/flaws? Would it be the sort to flee and plan for a future confrontation or would it stand its ground regardless of the odds? Has it’s plans been thrawted or will be thwarted with its death, or will standing its ground and distracting the party even one round longer better ensure its plan succeeds even if it perished?

There are so many options.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Ultimately it is one vs. four battle, where every participant can knock one person down in one turn. Unless the lone enemy can somehow target more than one character, they're obviously utterly and totally screwed regardless of who they target, so the question is meaningless.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Fair enough - so my assessment that the guy is utterly doomed is even more correct than I thought it was!

He can still try and talk his way out.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

If you take out the Wizard then the Cleric casts healing word on the Wizard, and the Wizard still casts "Fireball, or Power Word Kill or anything in between" AND in addition the Cleric also casts his own Cantrip or Channel Divinity or makes an attack.

As long as the BBEG relies on damage alone and there is someone in the party capable of healing, that is the member you need to take down first, because damage can't take out anyone out of the fight as long as there is a healer alive.

okay, except if you target anyone who isn't primarily attacking (and most likely even if you do), you die. there is no "taking anyone out of the fight". there is "escape" and there is "dying horribly". those are your options.

The thing you're missing is the phrase in the opening post on "significant healing" and how the 0hp floor plays into this. Unless you play with the optional instant death rule there is a 0 hp floor on any damage (and if you do play with the optional rule, that number is unreachable by just about any monster or damaging spell past tier 2). If the PC is at 1 hit point, it does not matter if the enemy attack does 1 damage or 100 damage, a single low level healing spell AFTER the party member goes down nullifies that attack. In this respect, if a PC is at 1 hp, the Cleric's 1st level healing spells are MORE powerful than the enemies high damage attack.

Healing Word, a 1st level spell, will bring a PC back from range and without the Cleric even using an action. Aid, a 2nd level spell, will bring back 3 downed characters. There is no math that will support targeting other members first as long as the Cleric is still up and has these spells available.

you're missing something even more fundamental then this that makes this entire section irrelevant, but i'll get to that in a moment.

If you look at the table you posted:

If you take out the Cleric, at 17th level the BBEG takes 70 damage from the Wizard's Meteor Swarm (assuming made save which is probable with Legendary resistance).

If you take out the Wizard The BBEG takes 70 damage from the Wizard's Meteor Swarm plus another 10 or so from the Cleric's Spear with Blessed Strike. That assumes the Cleric does not have a good CD to use in this fight and does not want to give divine intervention a shot.

if you had looked at the entire purpose of the table to begin with, you'd realize i made it to check just how likely it is that the wizard can end the fight with one spell in the same way the fighter can with one attack. which gets to what you missed...

If the BBEG can't last one round against the rest of the party then he can't win regardless of who you take out, but making a poor tactical choice and taking out someone other than the Cleric does not change that.

there is no possible way for the BBEG to last one round fighting the party (i guess unless you hit the wizard since the cleric might not have save-for-half damage that equals the fighter's attack and the fighter and rogue might either both be out of range or miss all their attacks, but like you mentioned, with healing word on the table to bring the wizard back up there's a good chance that wouldn't do much, even with taking half the wizard's movement from standing), because of this clarification:

One of the conditions is that the fighter can take the BBEG out with one hit.

so it's not that the party - or even just the fighter - focus firing can end the fight. it's that anyone who can match the damage output of a single one of the fighter's attacks can end the fight. this is why, really, there are absolutely no good options other then running away - because someone WILL kill you before you can really effect any other strategy. and honestly, even running away very well might not save you, it just gives you...not even the best odds. it gives you odds in general.

that was my point - the bbeg is screwed unless they run away, and even then things don't look great.

He can still try and talk his way out.

With the Frizz PCs? No way!

 

[ECMO3]

okay, except if you target anyone who isn't primarily attacking (and most likely even if you do), you die. there is no "taking anyone out of the fight". there is "escape" and there is "dying horribly". those are your options.

but it is no different. On the Wizard's turn you still "die horribly" whether you downed him or the Cleric. The only way this is not true is if you are playing with individual initiative AND the Cleric goes after the Wizard in initiative AND the extra turn let's you get to a safe area.

If you can get to a safe area anyway then you are safe regardless of who you target. If you can't get to a safe area then the Wizard is going to kill you whether you target him or the Cleric or anyone else.

if you had looked at the entire purpose of the table to begin with, you'd realize i made it to check just how likely it is that the wizard can end the fight with one spell in the same way the fighter can with one attack. which gets to what you missed...

Yeah and the Wizard can still do this whether you used your action to down the Wizard or the Cleric.

What you see to be missing is downing the Wizard does not mean the Wizard can't act.

If you down the Cleric, then the Wizard, Rogue and Fighter get to act.

If you down the Wizard (or anyone other than the Cleric) then the Wizard, Rogue, Fighter and Cleric all get to act.

there is no possible way for the BBEG to last one round fighting the party (i guess unless you hit the wizard since the cleric might not have save-for-half damage that equals the fighter's attack and the fighter and rogue might either both be out of range or miss all their attacks, but like you mentioned, with healing word on the table to bring the wizard back up there's a good chance that wouldn't do much, even with taking half the wizard's movement from standing), because of this clarification:

I agree there may be no possible way for the BBEG to win, but if the BBEG can't win then he can't win and targeting the Wizard does not change this.

No if you down the Wizard then the Wizard still kills the BBEG. If the Wizard can 100% kill him, the cleric doesn't even need to attack the BBEG at all, he heals the Wizard and then dodges or whatever and lets the Wizard kill him.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I agree there may be no possible way for the BBEG to win, but if the BBEG can't win then he can't win and targeting the Wizard does not change this.

No if you down the Wizard then the Wizard still kills the BBEG. If the Wizard can 100% kill him, the cleric doesn't even need to attack the BBEG at all, he heals the Wizard and then dodges or whatever and lets the Wizard kill him.

yes - which is why the mistake is targeting ANYONE.