Gnome attribute changes

[Quickbeam]

In a current thread on the General Discussion Board, several folks have raised the notion that gnomes should be +2 INT instead of +2 CON. The logic being gnomes are supposed to be a bit more well-read, mechanically inclined and naturally gifted in alchemy, whereas their dwarf brethren are the sturdy folk. I'm just curious how many of you support/use this change in your games.

 

[drowdude]

IMC rock gnomes are -2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Wis

 

[Quickbeam]

I've spent another few hours thinking this over, and felt like posting my random (and often contradictory) thoughts .

-- Swapping the CON bonus for an INT bonus makes gnomes more unique, which is a good thing since they occasionally get overlooked as not having a specific niche or archetype.
-- It's hard to envision or rationalize a class with a STR penalty receiving and extra hit point at every level, or benefitting from an increased Fortitude saving throw.
-- Granting an INT bonus would infringe on one of the specific human benefits, by increasing gnome skill points. It would also make gnomes better wizards in general, by giving them an extra spell at 1st level.
-- Making such a change alters the game designers intent, since it appears they did not want any standard race to be considered more intelligent or wise.

Thanks for humoring me while I think out loud...

 

[Crothian]

The points are all valid but I still don't have a problem with it. Yes, the PHB races had a lot of thought in them. However, there are rules for changing them in the DMG. I'd allow it in my games.

 

[Aris]

A smarter idea is to make them subraces. one has +2 con, -2 str and one +2 int, -2 str. You can also add other stuff to make them differ. In one of the Dragon(the one about gnomes), they include two new subraces, the Arcane Gnome(has a +2 int) and the River Gnome(lives in water), also both have many new abilities and have no ECL. How that help

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

A smarter idea is to make them subraces. one has +2 con, -2 str and one +2 int, -2 str. You can also add other stuff to make them differ.

Could someone please explaine the rationale behind this to me?

Something that really ticks me off about the small races from the PHB is the double neutering that they both recieve.

Understandably, the carrying capacities of the smaller races need to be reduced. After all, they are smaller and therefore don't have the ability to bring as much leverage to bear on the loads they carry, and a given amount of weight will represent a larger portion of their total body weight. However, proportionately, the smaller races are just as strong as humans.

There are two obvious ways to deal with this, reduce the Str scores of smaller races or reduce the amount of weight that a given Str score will allow smaller characters to carry.

For some messed up reason, WotC decided to use both methods, hence my statement of double neutering.
************

In light of this, can anyone explain what WotC's messed up reason was for using both methods?

 

[Crothian]

Reducing the strength alone doesn't effect a lot in carrying capicity. I don't see this as a double netering. Small creatures cannot carry as much as medium sized, so they are effected by that rule. Then the race has a minus to the strength score becasue they are weak. Not all small races have a minus to strength.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Sorry, but I can't remember any small race from an official source that doesn't. There might have been one in FRCS, but I never paid much attention to their sub-races.

The only book I can think of off the top of my head that had any Small races without Str penalties was Mythic Races from FFG.

 

[Quickbeam]

I don't have a gripe with making the smaller races weaker, since they receive a mitigating +1 bonus to hit due to their stature.

I was simply trying to discern who used attribute bonus/penalty house rules for gnomes, and why. I like the +2 INT option, but wonder if it diminishes one of the reasons for choosing a human character.

 

[Tarin Greenflame]

Well, humans DO get the bonus feat, and have no str penalty or weapon size penalty or carrying capacity penalty. In the light of being an arcane caster, most of those don't matter much, but the bonus feat is always nice. Besides, if you are going to play a gnome, yer gonna play a gnome :> Most people would pick human or elf over gnome, even when playing a wizard. Gnomes in the PHB are a bit too weak in terms of stat allocation to be played often. Like mentioned above, con bonus but str penalty does not really make sense. In the case of halflings, at least dex is a stat that is not geared towards all fighting classes as con is. Gnomes with a +2 INT and -2 WIS or +2 INT -2 STR would work fine.