Gnome attribute changes

[Poltergeist]

I think the +2 intelligence makes excellence sense for gnomes for all the reasons you posted initially. Additionally, they are the only race so versed in magic that all members can cast a few arcane cantrips which lends itself to the idea of them being "very smart". I think the description in the PHB even makes a point of what excellent scholars they are (something about many scholars learning the gnomish language to read books written by gnomish scholars), and also goes well with the gadgety, alchemically, tinkering thing. I think adding the stat bonus to intelligence is also a perfect way of giving the gnomes their own "niche".

Additionally, most other races receive a stat bonus to one of the primary or secondary stats for their preferred multi-class (Dwarves get con which gives their warriors more hit points, elves get dex which helps protect their armorless wizards, halflings get dex which helps their rogue skills, etc) while gnomes have a preferred multi-class of illusionist and a stat bonus to con. At least for me, con is at best a tertiary stat when I make a wizard class character...intelligence first, dex second.

Humans would retain no stat penalty or bonus, a bonus feat, their skill point bonus, and can multi-class anything which would leave them very unique and playable. With the human advantages in 3rd edition, it is the first time I have found choosing NOT to play a human painful and I don't think switching the gnomes bonus to intelligence rather than con would change that.

 

[Quickbeam]

Additionally, most other races receive a stat bonus to one of the primary or secondary stats for their preferred multi-class (Dwarves get con which gives their warriors more hit points, elves get dex which helps protect their armorless wizards, halflings get dex which helps their rogue skills, etc) while gnomes have a preferred multi-class of illusionist and a stat bonus to con. At least for me, con is at best a tertiary stat when I make a wizard class character...intelligence first, dex second.

That is an excellent observation, and one of the most persuasive arguments I've heard in favor of making the change from a CON bonus to an INT bonus.

 

[CuriousBard]

How about this to stir the pot some........

Half-orcs get a +2 Str bonus and take a double penalty in Int and Chr. The effects and importance of combat is the explination for this. So why isn't the reverse true?

If a Str bonus calls for a double penalty for Int and Chr, why wouldn't a Str penalty call for a double bonus for Int and Chr?

Now granted, not many would associate a Chr bonus with gnomes of all things. Not quite sure how to get around all that. But just a thought.

 

[Darklone]

Contra

Some thoughts about this taken from an earlier thread about a similar thing:

- Never give boni to mental stats. The DCs are tough enough. It encourages minimaxing. The corerule books consider most races as equal with different bodies. I'd go with that. You see how many guys play sunelves with Int+2 if they are allowed? Munchkins

- Con a tertiary bonus for wizards? I disagree. Who cares about AC if you got enough hitpoints to survive? I have seen several wizards or sorcerers with more Con than dex and they did VERY fine. It's good against fireballs and magic missiles. Dex does not help much there.

- About Str penalty calling for Int and Wis bonus... Nah. Think about it again. A bonus helps with the stats that interest you most, a penalty is unimportant. Who cares if my lvl20 wizard has Strength 6? Who cares if my halforc barbarian has Cha 8 or Cha 6? But both care about the bonus to their prime stat.

- I saw some "scientific" considerations about gnome and dwarven physiology with respect to their Con bonus. Dwarves for example have a twin ribcage that protects the guts. Was very nice and inspiring. Anyone got an idea where that thingy is?

Nuff said for now.

 

[Fenris]

Along the lines of what Poltergeist said, each race has stat bonuses that correlate with their favored classes (that is why they are the races favored classes!) So for gnomes to have a bonus to int with an illusionist favored class is not extraordinary compared to the other races. This means the tend to make good illusionists, and not good fighters. The advantage of humans (and half-elves) is that they are equally good at being ANY class. The point of the demi-human stat modifications is to reflect the cultural/physical bias of other races towards certain classes.
Quickbeam, thank you for starting this thread. I had some qualms about the gnomes, the +2 int makes them more than little dwarves. This is definitely something for me to further ruminate on.

 

[billking]

I don't see what the big deal is.

Gnomes are really good arcane spellcasters. They are small, granting a bonus to AC, ranged touch attacks, and +4 to Hide; they have more Constitution, beefing up already-low hit points as well as aiding in Concentration checks. They have +2 to Alchemy, a skill most arcane spellcasters bone up on. They have bonus cantrips just for being a gnome, and their favored race in a kind of wizard.

What more do you need? Honestly, the elven +2 Dex, -2 Con does nothing because both abilities are about equal in importance; they aren't small; and their racial skill bonuses are more for rogues and rangers than for wizards and sorcerers.

 

[Gez]

I don't think Gnomes should have a penalty to Wisdom. The infamous krynnish tinker gnomes should be disregarded and let to gather dust in the Hall of the Forever Forgotten Things. And normal gnomes are not foolish (to the contrary, their way of avoiding to attract attention and solving conflicts, whenever possible, by peaceful means are especially wise) nor unaware (given that Wisdom represents perceptions and capacity of attention, a race of curious folks with inquisitive minds would not have a bad Wis score).

There are Small races with a Str bonus ! Look at the arctic dwarves (Inagaakalikurit) in Monsters of Faerûn: size: Small, Str +6 ! (IIRC) But indeed, small player races always have a penalty to Str... or rather a bonus : if you look at the table for enlarging/reducing creatures in the MM introduction, you'll notice that a Small-sized human would have 6 Str average; or that a Medium-sized gnome would get a 12 Str average.

I don't have problem with the Con bonus. It don't represent only hit point soaking, but also Fortitude saves, and I can see a Gnome resisting poison or life-draining attacks. Furthermore, it is a big mistake to believe that Con should be only for melee classes, they already have a good HD and Fort saves. My Gnome wizard, however, would have been dead several times if she had a 16 Con instead of a 18.

Just picture the gnomes as a hardy little folk, peoples who love life too much to accept death easily. One of the feats introduced in the FRCS is Strong Soul (fortitude bonus against energy and level drain), and is one of the racial/regional feats for the gnomes and dwarves


Aris, could you expand a little on the Arcane and River gnomes ? I've tried to get the Gnome issue of Dragon (#293), but to no avail. And I can't order it from WotC, because I'm not a resident of the United States of America.