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GOBLIN ARMY vs. 10th lvl PCs: Seeking some ideas. [My players GET LOST!]
- Thread starter Tom Cashel
- Start date
Storminator
First Post
I used an old 1e trick for my kobolds in Sunless Citadel. I spiked the doors. I set it up so that the doors could open a couple of inches without a STR check (dc 20). Then 4 kobolds behind the door with bows.
The kobolds fired many arrows while the PCs broke down the doors, then ran. Into the next room, with another rigged door.
Make sure your goblin archers concentrate their fire. Pick a PC, and have every single archer attack them. Don't switch targets unless absolutely necessary. And forget the fogs. Goblin's have darkvision, which will give them an advantage if they can keep the lights down. In the fog, darkvision is uneffective.
PS
The kobolds fired many arrows while the PCs broke down the doors, then ran. Into the next room, with another rigged door.
Make sure your goblin archers concentrate their fire. Pick a PC, and have every single archer attack them. Don't switch targets unless absolutely necessary. And forget the fogs. Goblin's have darkvision, which will give them an advantage if they can keep the lights down. In the fog, darkvision is uneffective.
PS
It seems only natural to make a typical Goblin "warrior" a Rogue; they're supposed to be sneaky, and their Favored Class is Rogue already.
An ambush -- or a series of ambushes -- by a couple dozen Rog1 Goblins -- with shortbows, up on a ledge -- could do some damage.
A few low-level Fighters with Spirited Charge could also do some damage.
Arrows dipped in "filth" (lovely euphemism) can transmit Filth Fever.
mmadsen said:
NICE! Every while or so, just have a few goblins fire some contaminated arrows down. After a day or four of being shot at, all the PCs should have contracted the thing.
Just to make it plausable, have them keep a pet Otyugh in at the Waste Management Facility, tended by goblin Sanitation Engineers in orange jumpsuits.
My suggestion is to not think so tacticly,and think more strategicly. (even if I can't spell them...)
You have an entire nation/tribe/whatever; they only have a handful of people.
Use plenty of recon. The goblins reconing never attack. But have something *always* happening; even if it is just goblins running around 100' away in the woods during the night. Attack at least once an hour. Doesn't have to be much; 10 archers shooting twice and running. 5 goblins throwing oil into the camp, one goblin sneeking as close as possible to try and attack someone sleeping.
Attack one side, and the party will naturally go fighters to front, mage to back; then attack the backside with the reserves.
Good recon should indicate where they are heading, so you can use ambushes. Never use a stand up fight, hit and run. If you attack at night, they target one PC, kill him, and all retreat. Constantly keeping watch. Remember, they can cycle through units to keep them fresh.
During the day, constantly harass them, archers from a distance, booby traps, trip wires. (even if all they do is trip them...) Attack and run, when the fighters chase, have another group hit the stragglers.
Large attack, every Goblin that gets hit goes down and plays dead. Then sound retreat. A few minutes later, attack again, the 'dead' Goblins stand back up and have them surrounded.
Have fun.
You have an entire nation/tribe/whatever; they only have a handful of people.
Use plenty of recon. The goblins reconing never attack. But have something *always* happening; even if it is just goblins running around 100' away in the woods during the night. Attack at least once an hour. Doesn't have to be much; 10 archers shooting twice and running. 5 goblins throwing oil into the camp, one goblin sneeking as close as possible to try and attack someone sleeping.
Attack one side, and the party will naturally go fighters to front, mage to back; then attack the backside with the reserves.
Good recon should indicate where they are heading, so you can use ambushes. Never use a stand up fight, hit and run. If you attack at night, they target one PC, kill him, and all retreat. Constantly keeping watch. Remember, they can cycle through units to keep them fresh.
During the day, constantly harass them, archers from a distance, booby traps, trip wires. (even if all they do is trip them...) Attack and run, when the fighters chase, have another group hit the stragglers.
Large attack, every Goblin that gets hit goes down and plays dead. Then sound retreat. A few minutes later, attack again, the 'dead' Goblins stand back up and have them surrounded.
Have fun.
s/LaSH
First Post
Harrying is good. Darkness is good. And group tactics can be devastating.
First, vast numbers are very good for flanking in melee. If you can totally surround someone, they're completely flanked, and most of the goblins can start using Aid Another rolls (seven goblins aiding a single attacker gives +14 to hit, +16 when flanking is considered). A well-armed goblin with assistants can really deal out the damage, and really, swarming opponents is what goblins do best.
Second, grappling is a viable tactic. Goblins are small, so eight of them can grapple a single human, and once one of them has latched on, no more attacks of opportunity and no Dex bonus to AC. If you've got eight goblins hanging off you, there's a good chance one of them will actually beat you in a grapple check and pin you, dropping your AC 4 points for the surrounding goblins to jab at you. (Goblins are at a disadvantage when grappling powerful characters; their grapple bonus of BAB+STRmod+size mod is around -4, while 10th level rogues are likely to be closer to +7. Still, a difference of 11 can be beaten on a d20.)
(As a side note, I'd probably allow Aid Another actions to improve the grapple bonus. A tsunami of goblins should be able to bear even strong, experienced characters down. +14 to grapple? That's not too shabby!)
Third, goblins should be careful of opportunity attacks. That was the secondary reason the fighter in my campaign did so well against entire armies... an opportunity attack on a charging enemy, followed (in all likelihood) by a Cleave on the next one. (Then the Whirlwind Attack, but that's not too likely in this group.) If the goblins approach cautiously, they may take extra casualties from missile fire, but if any of the PCs have Combat Reflexes, it's likely that they'll be safer stopping 5' from the PCs and just taking a step on their next action. It might take longer to surround the PCs for flanking, too. I'd weigh it up depending on the tactical situation; if you have enough casters, Protection From Arrows (Sor/Wiz 2) can be very useful in this circumstance. (DR 10/+1 against all ranged weapons.)
Finally, if the PCs are holed up in a limited area, why bother firing 'filth'-tipped arrows when you could just fling buckets of 'filth' in the first place? I guarantee the PCs wouldn't have an easy time resting in those circumstances, and would almost certainly contract filth fever over the next couple of days. Slow Dex/Con drain ensues; after a week, they're down maybe 10 Dex, 10 Con and have very poor chances of ever shrugging off the disease. It's a nasty way to die. ("Eeww, it got into my iron rations!" Do we eat, or do we starve?)
First, vast numbers are very good for flanking in melee. If you can totally surround someone, they're completely flanked, and most of the goblins can start using Aid Another rolls (seven goblins aiding a single attacker gives +14 to hit, +16 when flanking is considered). A well-armed goblin with assistants can really deal out the damage, and really, swarming opponents is what goblins do best.
Second, grappling is a viable tactic. Goblins are small, so eight of them can grapple a single human, and once one of them has latched on, no more attacks of opportunity and no Dex bonus to AC. If you've got eight goblins hanging off you, there's a good chance one of them will actually beat you in a grapple check and pin you, dropping your AC 4 points for the surrounding goblins to jab at you. (Goblins are at a disadvantage when grappling powerful characters; their grapple bonus of BAB+STRmod+size mod is around -4, while 10th level rogues are likely to be closer to +7. Still, a difference of 11 can be beaten on a d20.)
(As a side note, I'd probably allow Aid Another actions to improve the grapple bonus. A tsunami of goblins should be able to bear even strong, experienced characters down. +14 to grapple? That's not too shabby!)
Third, goblins should be careful of opportunity attacks. That was the secondary reason the fighter in my campaign did so well against entire armies... an opportunity attack on a charging enemy, followed (in all likelihood) by a Cleave on the next one. (Then the Whirlwind Attack, but that's not too likely in this group.) If the goblins approach cautiously, they may take extra casualties from missile fire, but if any of the PCs have Combat Reflexes, it's likely that they'll be safer stopping 5' from the PCs and just taking a step on their next action. It might take longer to surround the PCs for flanking, too. I'd weigh it up depending on the tactical situation; if you have enough casters, Protection From Arrows (Sor/Wiz 2) can be very useful in this circumstance. (DR 10/+1 against all ranged weapons.)
Finally, if the PCs are holed up in a limited area, why bother firing 'filth'-tipped arrows when you could just fling buckets of 'filth' in the first place? I guarantee the PCs wouldn't have an easy time resting in those circumstances, and would almost certainly contract filth fever over the next couple of days. Slow Dex/Con drain ensues; after a week, they're down maybe 10 Dex, 10 Con and have very poor chances of ever shrugging off the disease. It's a nasty way to die. ("Eeww, it got into my iron rations!" Do we eat, or do we starve?)
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
The goblins know the makeup of the party. The party is unusually lacking in brute strength--they don't have any brutes but they have a lot of finesse types and lots of magic.
The goblins have 70 odd grunts and one notable wizard if I read your post correctly. They should make use of that. A few low-level spells off of scrolls may be able to convince the PCs to waste a considerable amount of magical firepower. Find them where they camp--a few goblin ranger/rogue scouts should suffice for this. Then attack them in the dark. But start off the attack with a few diversions. An unseen servant with a heavy crossbow and a firepot. Light a crossbow bolt on fire and fire it in the general direction of the PCs' camp. Then move the Unseen Servant away and use a Dancing Lights spell to create the illusion of four more arrows lighting up in the same area. When the web or fireball spell comes in that's one spell down. Move around to the other side and repeat.
Assuming there's a shaman in the gobbo group, have him put silence on a stone and then cast invisibility on a gobbo or two. The gobbo then sneaks into camp (he may need an ally with a good poisoned arrow to take care of any animal companions with scent) and takes whatever stuff is lying around. You can give the gobbo a backup spellcaster with Fog Cloud prepared to cover his retreat if necessary.
Pretty soon, the PCs will be awake all night have wasted several spells, and the wizard at least will be unable to recover them in the morning. When the divine casters prepare their spells, launch another hit and fade volley of arrows. You might want to use a silent image spell to create an image of some gobbos about 50 feet from where the archers really are. Doing this a couple of times will keep the priests and druid from collecting their spells. They will probably have wasted a few more spells attempting to stop the attack too.
If you have moderate to high level goblin rogues, give them a few potions of expeditous retreat. Have them shoot a few arrows of silence into the camp. When the spellcasters leave the areas of silence to cast spells, have the (until then) invisible goblin rogues flank and sneak attack them. Even better if they're ranger/rogues and can sneak attack with two weapons. If you were really vicious, the goblin wizard's familiar could be there too--with a Vampiric Touch or ghoul touch spell ready to discharge. If he used ghoul touch first and the PC blew the save, one of the rogues could then coup de grace the PC instead of doing a normal sneak attack. As soon as they finish their attacks, the wizard--alerted by his familiar--could drop a fog cloud on the area in order to cover their escape.
When the PCs have used up some of their resources, mount an attack. I'd mix up units of gobbos with spectral force style illusions. When the PCs fireball the illusionary unit of goblin infantry, the real gobbos are sneaking around behind them. The goblins will need to make good use of things like obscuring mist and fog cloud (the concealment will prevent wizards from using ranged spells and rogues from sneak attacking). A calm animals spell from a low level gobbo druid/shaman should be used to keep the druid's animal companions out of the fight.
Low level goblin fighters (expertise, improved disarm) can also take advantage of the PCs low attack bonusses by disarming their weapons. If you have hobgoblins, you can skip improved disarm and just use ranseurs (the large weapon factor will help a lot). If you have potions of true strike in your campaign, using them will guarantee success. Alternately goblin fighter or rogue/wizards will do the trick. When a weapon drops, another goblin should pick it up and run (or the wizard could have unseen servants around with orders to do that).
Also, if you can, attack on a moonless and starless night. The goblins will do fine because of darkvision but unless your party's rogues have darkvision, their opponents will have concealment and will thus be immune to sneak attacks. Dispel Magics or readied counterspells can take out any magical light sources the PCs have. Alternately, you can just have the goblins shoot any light source they see moving. They don't need to be within darkvision range to do that. . . .
The goblins have 70 odd grunts and one notable wizard if I read your post correctly. They should make use of that. A few low-level spells off of scrolls may be able to convince the PCs to waste a considerable amount of magical firepower. Find them where they camp--a few goblin ranger/rogue scouts should suffice for this. Then attack them in the dark. But start off the attack with a few diversions. An unseen servant with a heavy crossbow and a firepot. Light a crossbow bolt on fire and fire it in the general direction of the PCs' camp. Then move the Unseen Servant away and use a Dancing Lights spell to create the illusion of four more arrows lighting up in the same area. When the web or fireball spell comes in that's one spell down. Move around to the other side and repeat.
Assuming there's a shaman in the gobbo group, have him put silence on a stone and then cast invisibility on a gobbo or two. The gobbo then sneaks into camp (he may need an ally with a good poisoned arrow to take care of any animal companions with scent) and takes whatever stuff is lying around. You can give the gobbo a backup spellcaster with Fog Cloud prepared to cover his retreat if necessary.
Pretty soon, the PCs will be awake all night have wasted several spells, and the wizard at least will be unable to recover them in the morning. When the divine casters prepare their spells, launch another hit and fade volley of arrows. You might want to use a silent image spell to create an image of some gobbos about 50 feet from where the archers really are. Doing this a couple of times will keep the priests and druid from collecting their spells. They will probably have wasted a few more spells attempting to stop the attack too.
If you have moderate to high level goblin rogues, give them a few potions of expeditous retreat. Have them shoot a few arrows of silence into the camp. When the spellcasters leave the areas of silence to cast spells, have the (until then) invisible goblin rogues flank and sneak attack them. Even better if they're ranger/rogues and can sneak attack with two weapons. If you were really vicious, the goblin wizard's familiar could be there too--with a Vampiric Touch or ghoul touch spell ready to discharge. If he used ghoul touch first and the PC blew the save, one of the rogues could then coup de grace the PC instead of doing a normal sneak attack. As soon as they finish their attacks, the wizard--alerted by his familiar--could drop a fog cloud on the area in order to cover their escape.
When the PCs have used up some of their resources, mount an attack. I'd mix up units of gobbos with spectral force style illusions. When the PCs fireball the illusionary unit of goblin infantry, the real gobbos are sneaking around behind them. The goblins will need to make good use of things like obscuring mist and fog cloud (the concealment will prevent wizards from using ranged spells and rogues from sneak attacking). A calm animals spell from a low level gobbo druid/shaman should be used to keep the druid's animal companions out of the fight.
Low level goblin fighters (expertise, improved disarm) can also take advantage of the PCs low attack bonusses by disarming their weapons. If you have hobgoblins, you can skip improved disarm and just use ranseurs (the large weapon factor will help a lot). If you have potions of true strike in your campaign, using them will guarantee success. Alternately goblin fighter or rogue/wizards will do the trick. When a weapon drops, another goblin should pick it up and run (or the wizard could have unseen servants around with orders to do that).
Also, if you can, attack on a moonless and starless night. The goblins will do fine because of darkvision but unless your party's rogues have darkvision, their opponents will have concealment and will thus be immune to sneak attacks. Dispel Magics or readied counterspells can take out any magical light sources the PCs have. Alternately, you can just have the goblins shoot any light source they see moving. They don't need to be within darkvision range to do that. . . .