Gods: DM Fluff or Player Crunch?

[Oryan77]

Which pantheon do you need?

I don't have any of the 1e or 2e books besides On Hallowed Ground. And I assume that if these gods appear on the wiki and still don't list their home plane, then it must not be mentioned even if they do appear in the 1e or 2e books. But these are the guys that I can't figure out where their realm is located and the source doesn't say if their realm is unknown:

Ayailla Book of Exalted Deeds pg 24
Chaav Book of Exalted Deeds pg 24
Estanna Book of Exalted Deeds pg 25
Lastai Book of Exalted Deeds pg 25
Phieran Book of Exalted Deeds pg 26
Valarian Book of Exalted Deeds pg 26
Karaan Book of Vile Darkness pg 11
The Patient One Book of Vile Darkness pg 11
Rallaster Book of Vile Darkness pg 11
Scahrossar Book of Vile Darkness pg 11
The Xammux Book of Vile Darkness pg 12
Yeathan Book of Vile Darkness pg 12
Kaelthiere Complete Divine pg 124
Sixin Complete Divine pg 124
Altua Complete Warrior pg 148
Halmyr Complete Warrior pg 148
Konkresh Complete Warrior pg 148
Lyris Complete Warrior pg 148
Nadirech Complete Warrior pg 149
Sulerain Complete Warrior pg 149
Syreth Complete Warrior pg 148
Typhos Complete Warrior pg 148
Valkar Complete Warrior pg 148
Taiia Deities and Demigods pg 203
Aengrist FRaces of Stonetburn pg 42
Hleid FRaces of Stonetburn pg 42
Iborighu FRaces of Stonetburn pg 42
Cas Heroes of Horror pg 19
Evening Glory Libris Mortis pg 17
Brahman On Hallowed Ground pg 179
Uranus On Hallowed Ground pg 129
High God On Hallowed Ground pg 180
Ao On Hallowed Ground pg 168
Aulasha Races of Destiny pg 74
Urbanus Races of Destiny pg 18
Zarus Races of Destiny pg 19
Gelf Darkhearth Races of Stone pg 43
Hanseath Races of Stone pg 17
Kavaki Races of Stone pg 65
Kuliak Races of Stone pg 66
Manethak Races of Stone pg 66
Mya Races of Stone pg 18
Naki-Uthai Races of Stone pg 67
Rill Cleverthrush Races of Stone pg 45
Roknar Races of Stone pg 19
Sheyanna Flaxenstrand Races of Stone pg 45
Tharmekhul Races of Stone pg 19
Thautam Races of Stone pg 20
The Glutton Races of Stone pg 44
Theleya Races of Stone pg 68
Valkauna Races of Stone pg 21
Vanua Races of Stone pg 68
Alobal Lorfiril Races of the Wild pg 20
Dallah Thaun Races of the Wild pg 52
Duthila Races of the Wild pg 77
Elebrin Liothiel Races of the Wild pg 21
Kithin Races of the Wild pg 78
Lliendil Races of the Wild pg 78
Nilthina Races of the Wild pg 79
Tuilviel Glithien Races of the Wild pg 77
Vandria Gilmadrith Races of the Wild pg 23
Ventila Races of the Wild pg 79
Al-Ishtus Sandstorm pg 45
Aurifar Sandstorm pg 45
Azul Sandstorm pg 45
Dahak Sandstorm pg 47
Gilgamesh Sandstorm pg 47
Haku Sandstorm pg 45
Kikanuti Sandstorm pg 46
Solanil Sandstorm pg 46
Tem-Et-Nu Sandstorm pg 46
Zoser Sandstorm pg 46
Essylliss Serpent Kingdoms pg 187
M'daess Serpent Kingdoms pg 187
Ssharstrune Serpent Kingdoms pg 188
Sss'thasine'ss Serpent Kingdoms pg 188
Varae Serpent Kingdoms pg 188
Aventernus Stormwrack pg 49
Whale Mother Stormwrack pg 49

 

[TarionzCousin]

But these are the guys that I can't figure out where their realm is located and the source doesn't say if their realm is unknown:
<snip>

Stick them all in the Abyss. Plenty of room for them in there.

 

[Thanael]

Ah, ok. Those appear to be mostly new creations from the 3E era. I bet some of the planescape guys have put them on appropriate layers. For example here's a thread about dead gods which contains Ayailla at least. Just google "<the gods name> sitelanewalker.com", that should give you a few hits.

The LG Deities document should list the layers for at least some of the others.

BTW the deities from On Hallowed Ground should all have layers assigned to them in the back of the book where there's an index to the gods iirc.

 

[The 1 and the Prime]

Seeing as I know many of these entities from personal aquaintance, I think I can be informative:

Ayailla: Light and Being High Up- Celestia
Chaav: Delights- Arborea
Estanna: Domesticity- Celestia
Lastai: Love, Pleasure, Passion- Elysium
Phieran: Endurance, Perseverance- Elysium
Valarian: (Sylvan) Curiosities- Ysgard
Karaan: Lycanthropy and Civil Decay- Pandemonium
Rallaster: Torture (using Blades)- Tartarus
Scahrossar: Sado-Masochism- Tartarus
The Xammux: Twisted Experimentation- Pandemonium
Yeathan: Watery Death and Murkiness- Abyss
Kaelthiere: Fire Elemental- Inner Plane of Fire
Sixin: Deception (War)- Abyss
Altua: Honor and Nobility- Bytopia
Halmyr: Strategy (War)- Elysium
Konkresh: Brute Force- Hades
Lyris: Fate (War)- Celestia
Nadirech: Cowardice and Trickery- Abyss
Sulerain: Death and Slaughter- Hades
Syreth: Guarding and Protection- Archeron
Typhos: Tyranny- Hells
Valkar: Courage- Bytopia
Taiia Unknown
Aengrist Unknown
Hleid Unknown
Iborighu Unknown
Cas: Spite- Gehanna
Evening Glory: Beauty and Love (Immortality, Undeath)- Beastlands
Brahman: Celestia
Uranus: Sky/Seasons (Primordial)- Mechanus
High God Unknown
Ao Unknown
Aulasha Unknown
Urbanus: Cities- Elysium
Zarus: Domination and Perfection- Hells
Gelf Darkhearth: Resentment and Revenge- Gehanna
Hanseath: Violent Drunkeness- Pandemonium
Kavaki Unknown
Kuliak Unknown
Manethak Unknown
Mya: Clan Family and Wisdom- Bytopia
Naki-Uthai Unknown
Ril Cleverthrush: Innvention, Creation- Limbo
Roknar: Greed, Lies- Abyss
Sheyanna Flaxenstrand: Beauty and Passion- Beastlands
Tharmekhul: Forge and Warfare- Hells
Thautam: Darkness and Magic- Abyss
The Glutton: Disastrous Greed- Tartarus
Theleya Unknown
Valkauna: Oaths- Arcadia
Vanua Unknown
Alobal Lorfiril: Hedonism and Mirth- Arborea
Dallah Thaun: Guile, Thievery, Mischief, and Greed- Pandemonium
Duthila Unknown
Elebrin Liothiel: Nature and Foraging- Ysgard
Kithin Unknown
Lliendil Unknown
Nilthina Unknown
Tuilviel Glithien Unknown
Vandria Gilmadrith: Decision- Mechanus
Ventila Unknown
Al-Ishtus: Venom and Scorpions- Limbo
Aurifar: Judgement, Life, and Light- Arcadia
Azul Unknown
Dahak Unknown
Gilgamesh: Human Potential- Limbo
Haku Unknown
Kikanuti: Goblin Magic (Good)- Ysgard
Solanil: Oases and Hospitality- Celestia
Tem-Et-Nu: Transportation, Wealth, and Victory- Elysium
Zoser: Dervishes and Tornados- Arborea
Essylliss Unknown
M'daess Unknown
Ssharstrune Unknown
Sss'thasine'ss Unknown
Varae Unknown
Aventernus Unknown
Whale Mother: Refuge and Travel- Arcadia

Celestia .Bytopia ..Elysium .Beastlands Arborea
Arcadia ..................................................Ysgard
Mechanus ............................................. Limbo
Archeron ................................................Pandemonium
Hells .....Gehanna .Hades ..Tartarus ......The Abyss

I really need to get around to making my post on Great Wheel Cosmology. It would make all of this classification fairly simple and intuitive

 

[catsclaw227]

I am sorry, what is fluff and what is crunch and what in this massive list is found in 1e/2e/3e/4e.

 

[Set]

Bring back favored colors and favored animals as well!

 

[Oryan77]

Seeing as I know many of these entities from personal aquaintance, I think I can be informative:

What source did you use to get this information? I'm only interested in the official answer to their location. But if you got this info from an official TSR/WotC book, then I owe ya one!

I am sorry, what is fluff and what is crunch and what in this massive list is found in 1e/2e/3e/4e.

Fluff is a reference to the information that describes something so you can use that info for roleplaying purposes.

Crunch is a reference to the statistical information and abilities of a subject.

So like, a stat block for a character is the crunch, but the habitat/society, ecology, and history (backstory) info is the fluff.

I'm not really sure what all in the list is from which edition. It all at least appears in 3e since I've listed the sourcebooks. And the ones listed from On Hallowed Ground would be 2e (but not 3e as far as I can tell). I don't play 4e, so I don't know if any appear in any 4e books.

 

[The 1 and the Prime]

Well, no, these aren't known to the mortals either at TSR or WoTC. Sorry for the disappointment.

But, you could pretend they were canon, I mean what's the difference? I don't know the details of your game, so I am objective in some sense; I have (IMHO) a very concrete and logical system for assignment of the deities according to the "flavor" of the planes, I didn't just guess; WoTC seems to be averse to providing ANY fluff for Deities at least (if not in general) so there is no danger of adopting something that will be contradicted by canon in the foreseeable future, and I am pretty sure further search for in canon sources will be fruitless; and for all you know I am typing this while sitting inside the mystical aura surrounding the WoTC office that allows stuff written there to be "true-er" than other stuff. So why not just adopt it?

PS: Great Wheel cosmology is teh haxor; you are awesome for playing GW.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

I am sorry, what is fluff and what is crunch and what in this massive list is found in 1e/2e/3e/4e.

Fluff and Crunch are two somewhat broad categories for content that you might get from any given source book.

Consider for example an Orc:

Crunch: 1 HD humanoid creature. Attack +3 for 1d12 damage. 21 hp, AC 115, Fort 13, Ref 11, Will 9

Fluff: An orc is a brutish humanoid creature with a pig like face that is prone to violence, and is not especially intelligent. It likes to spend its time picking wild flowers in the meadow and strangling small kittens.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[catsclaw227]

Fluff is a reference to the information that describes something so you can use that info for roleplaying purposes.

Crunch is a reference to the statistical information and abilities of a subject.

So like, a stat block for a character is the crunch, but the habitat/society, ecology, and history (backstory) info is the fluff.

Fluff and Crunch are two somewhat broad categories for content that you might get from any given source book.

Consider for example an Orc:

Crunch: 1 HD humanoid creature. Attack +3 for 1d12 damage. 21 hp, AC 115, Fort 13, Ref 11, Will 9

Fluff: An orc is a brutish humanoid creature with a pig like face that is prone to violence, and is not especially intelligent. It likes to spend its time picking wild flowers in the meadow and strangling small kittens.

Thanks guys... I've been around enough to know what fluff and crunch are...

I did not explain well what I meant because I was juggling 3 different things.

When looking at these two big lists of deities (from Oryan77 and The 1 and the Prime) with no other information, which of them have crunch available, which have fluff and where is it? Also, which "edition" were these long lists drawn from? Mostly 1e/2e material?

In other words, in a vacuum, these lists appear to be simply names and book references don't help the OP's original question.

EDIT: This is NOT a knock on the fine posters that spent the time putting together these lists. I can appreciate the time and effort it takes. Unfortunately, it's the very idea that this gets done in the first place that makes me wonder.

Imagine that I am Joe Freelancer back in the late 80s or early 90s and I wrote a single adventure for TSR. In it, I mentioned that one of the rooms has a couple of runes on a wall making reference to Goolagongk, a Lesser God of Frogmen. I wrote it as some fluff filler to add something to room rather than leaving it as an empty room (and I want to make page count).

Now, 20 years later, Goolagongk is on a list in a message board with people wondering where they can find the fluff and crunch for my Frogmen god. There isn't any and there wasn't ever intended to be any. Yes, it can make a good adventure seed, but it was never intended as such. The name was made up and there was never going to be a Goolagongk god writeup anywhere.

Now, Goolagongk is being labeled as D&D cosmology canon somewhere...

Looks like there are lots of "gods" floating out there with only a passing reference. Maybe I am just tired of seeing people taking every proper name they find in a D&D supplement and assuming it's some kind of canon that gets heaped onto another bloated list of names without any other detail....

I mean, how many gods does a campaign world need?

Thus end'th my Father's Day ramble/rant. Too many cheddar-franks with mustard, I think.