D&D 5E Goliath/Half-Giant - A Race Suggestion for D&D Next

[JohnSnow]

Realizing that D&D Next is a long way from being published, I wanted to put forward the notion of a race that I really think the game needs to work in. And that's the "Giant" race.

Personally, I really like Goliaths and would love to see them join the core - except that I completely hate their look. With the lithoderms and the mottled skin, they're a little weird for me.

However, I would very much like to see a (small) giant race that could fill the role of "strong, tough race" that the game definitely needs. What do I mean by "small giant? Let's say 8-9 feet. I think that's around the size of a Firbolg, and maybe rather than a "half-giant," we should just have "Firbolg" as a player character race.

Thoughts?

 

[Sunseeker]

As I posted in the other thread on races, I would be really happy to see 5e be the return of templates, especially ones for variant playable races (LA+0). I think it would go a long way to expanding the amount of races available to players early on, and providing a starting point for racial manuals later in development.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Half-ogres!

 

[Savage Wombat]

I'm a little tired of all the games having to have the "bigger and stronger than humans" race and the "smaller and faster than humans" race. Originally, 3E avoided having a race that had a +2 to a spell-casting stat, just so that it wasn't "obvious" that a spell-caster should be a particular race.

If you like goliaths or half-ogres or whatever, that's fine - but I don't want the designer's mindset to be that "we have to have the high STR low DEX race for big fighters" any more than I want them to assume all fighters wear heavy armor.

We don't want a return to the 3E "download the most efficient build off the internet" days, do we?

Make races about flavor, not min-maxing.

 

[Tilenas]

However, I would very much like to see a (small) giant race that could fill the role of "strong, tough race" that the game definitely needs. What do I mean by "small giant? Let's say 8-9 feet. I think that's around the size of a Firbolg, and maybe rather than a "half-giant," we should just have "Firbolg" as a player character race.

Thoughts?

+1.
I really like the Firbolg concept and have for some time considered to turn them into a playable race in 3.x . However, given 3.x's "bigger is better (in combat)" tendencies, it's difficult to come up with a size L race without level adjustment. And since I personally despise Powerful Build, I'd really need some fix for the size categories before any large PC races can be introduced.

Make races about flavor, not min-maxing.

Oh, absolutely. Now, how does that collide with having a bigger-and-stronger-but-not-necessarily-dumb-race?

 

[TwinBahamut]

I'd rather just see a full-scale Giant race. Forget about dialing back the size to make it more humanlike, let the players have a twelve to twenty foot tall giant on the team.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Oh, absolutely. Now, how does that collide with having a bigger-and-stronger-but-not-necessarily-dumb-race?

It only "collides" if you feel that the game needs to have a bigger-and-stronger race for balance reasons.

So, for example, if you think (as some people have said) that the game should only have 4-6 races, you shouldn't include a giantish race in lieu of something more classic (dwarves) just to make more powerful fighters.

If we're getting a PH with a dozen or so races, a giantish race is more acceptable.

Non-D&D Example: The upcoming GW2 has 5 races available: Humans, Sylvari (elf stand-in), Asura (short magic-types), Norn (giant norse warrior-types), and Charr (bestial). They're flavorful, but the design intent to balance the races with humans in the middle seems pretty blatant.

So, to reiterate and expand: when the game designers are selecting which races to support, they should decide based on flavor, not on "balance".

 

[JohnSnow]

Frankly, I like the concept of a firbolg (or similar) being a playable race from an aesthetic (rather than mechanical) standpoint. To my mind, it's the race that fits into the reverse niche of the dwarf or halfling. And the reason I don't want ogres in this roll is because there's a monstrous component to ogres that doesn't work.

Both norse and celtic myths and legends had heroes who were just bigger and stronger than average. Given that giants often exist, some kind of larger race has a nice thematic element to it that fits in with some very old fantasy tropes.

9 feet is about the same height relative to a human as a human is relative to a halfling or dwarf. It's big enough to be noticed, but small enough to (maybe) be able to fit into your average D&D building. Wanting the latter is why it was tempting to drop the height to 8 feet, which would brush the ceiling in most modern dwellings.

That seems about right to me.

 

[Tehnai]

Goliath is one of my favorite non-standard race in DnD, I've fallen completely in love with the since I bought Races of Stone.

I do not want to see them in the core book. I'll be ecstatic if they are in one of the early supplements, but I don't think they belong in the core book as the "large, strong guys" race.

We have half-orcs (or, hopefully, just plain old Orcs) as a strong race that is much more, in my opinion, iconic.

 

[Jack7]

Half Giants (we don't use the term half-giant, but call them as you will) are a playable race in my world. They range from 7 to 12 feet tall.

However my players almost never play a giant above 8 feet tall because larger than that size and at the appropriate mass for that size it becomes very difficult for such a character to explore certain areas. And many do not have any great love for underground areas that restrict them and make them especially vulnerable.

Half-Giants in my world (as a race) tend to be excellent builders, mechanics, and engineers, tend to be of better than average intelligence, and very powerful and deadly missileers. (They are superb and quick with medium to large sized siege engines.) Their endurance and toughness is great, and they are excellent survivalists and often prefer to work alone. They are very good in wilderness settings and can often alter their skin tone to give themselves a camouflage advantage in stony and rocky areas. They can also, when agitated, release a skin odor that is so offensive it can drive off many opponents.

They do very poorly in desert areas because they cannot exchange heat very well, but excel in cold areas, because they retain body heat. They need a lot of water (about 3 times as much as a human), but can retain liquids better than humans and have to eat copious amounts of food once a week (and store it in a tough fatty layer between their skin and muscles which acts like a built in suit of heavy leather armor) to maintain their energy but after that can go six to seven more days without eating.

They are not good natural users of magic, but are sensitive to it and detect it easily. However they make excellent Hermits and Monks. And they make superb Rangers, but walk everywhere they go, and can hike many miles a day (sometimes three times as far as a man). They track well.

They sleep though about 10 to 12 hours per day.

They also like the shotput and discus in open air combat, which they are very deadly with and can throw with great force.They will often, in hand to hand combat situations, pick up iron balls of 50 pounds or greater they carry with them, or large rocks if any are nearby, and physically charge into smaller opponents relying upon their weight and mass to crush or trample their enemies underfoot. Many other races fear them for this, and call them "Stormbulls" (a slang term) for this tactic.

Other races often say, "Do not anger the Tardeem or they will trample you."

 

[JoeGKushner]

In The Sword of Bheleu and the series that book is a part of, there is a race of Overmen who are stronger and more hardy than normal men. The author made them in direct contrast to Elric. Ironic considering Elric's own origins as an opposite of Conan.

Rolemaster had some variants for this race in one of their companions. They tried to 'balance' it out by providing them fewer background points. Similiar to what they did with the 'High Men' who were 'wink wink' Duneadin from Middle Earth.

Perhaps at some point down the road I wouldn't mind seeing such a race but until some of the actual mechanics are out and we know how size interacts with the system and indeed, how large the core PHB is, I'll be happy as long as they have human, elf, dwarf and halfling.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I like goliaths and I'd be happy to see them or something similar. I like goliaths a bit better than the other races being talked about here because they have an interesting tribal culture that adds a new element to the game (I don't really mind half-giants though). They really need to build around the basic races (human, elf, dwarf, halfling) and separate out the extra ones.

We don't want a return to the 3E "download the most efficient build off the internet" days, do we?

Which one? A return to 3e or a return to min/maxing? 3e was more the "you want to play a gnome barbarian? Um, okay" days. All classes were opened up to all races and people took advantage of it big time. We do want a return to the "play what you want" days, don't we? Frankly, race had such a small impact on high level characters that you'd have to be a pretty hardcore powergamer to min/max races enough to detract from the game.

And if anything, I'd rather see it so that races were clearly good at certain classes. Halflings should be slightly superior rogues, dwarves should be good fighters and clerics, elves should be good rangers and wizards, and goliaths should be good barbarians and druids. Some of those classic archetypes (especially the elven ones) don't work well enough in 3e.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Which one? A return to 3e or a return to min/maxing? 3e was more the "you want to play a gnome barbarian? Um, okay" days. All classes were opened up to all races and people took advantage of it big time. We do want a return to the "play what you want" days, don't we? Frankly, race had such a small impact on high level characters that you'd have to be a pretty hardcore powergamer to min/max races enough to detract from the game.

Here I'm thinking of the "I'm playing an Elan because I can be an aberration and therefore qualify for these bizarre feats from the aberration book" days. The "I'm playing a Goliath so I can monkey grip two great maces" days. The "you have to take one level of shadow-dancer so you can have hide in plain sight" days.

If you want a cool, powerful character, you can have that. It's the "I found this cool character build path on the internet that makes no thematic sense but allows me to use this broken combo when I hit 20th level" that I'm referring to.

 

[trancejeremy]

This is why I think races in D&D should have no game mechanics to them (no ability scores bonuses, no special powers). That way people could play whatever they want and it won't break the system.

 

[variant]

This is why I think races in D&D should have no game mechanics to them (no ability scores bonuses, no special powers). That way people could play whatever they want and it won't break the system.

Let's not have any game mechanics at all (no ability score bonuses, no special powers). That way people could play whatever they want and it won't break the system.

 

[TwinBahamut]

This is why I think races in D&D should have no game mechanics to them (no ability scores bonuses, no special powers). That way people could play whatever they want and it won't break the system.

It would be kind of hard to play something like, say, a werewolf, dragon, or angel in D&D without any racial game mechanics and expect the game to work. In its own way, previous editions of the game have too many assumptions for you to get away with that. Generally, the rules assume that, unless otherwise stated, characters are human, and any racial mechanics focus on the inhumanness of a race. If you have no rules for races, then the system quickly and naturally moves towards forcing everyone to play a human. This is quite the opposite of letting anyone play what they want...

 

[exile]

I think I'd rather see a half-ogre than a firbolg or goliath. Even though it's a "half" race, it feel sa little more iconic to me.

 

[Khaalis]

(Broken record...) I like how Fantasy Craft did their races. They include both Giant and Ogre as PC races. The biggest reason they work however, is that the core system removed the Size = better combat (Atk/Dam) problem that d20 had.

Large creature's STR being better than other races is represented more as the ability to carry/lift more rather than bonuses to attacks & damage. Thus a STR 14 giant fighter is equivalent in attack/damage modifiers as a human fighter with the same STR. However, the giant can lift/carry 5 times as much and has other benefits (and penalties) due to their size.

 

[El Mahdi]

I like Giant type characters also. One of my favorites was the Firbolg in 2E. I think a generic Giant race would be awesome. Make them Large sized (with plusses and minuses as appropriate - like in 3E - defense, attack, etc.), and no more than about 8 to 10 feet tall (with appropriate weight).

Call them Goliath, Firbolg, or just plain old Giant. I'd definitely love something like that included in D&D Next.

 

[hanez]

Let's not have any game mechanics at all (no ability score bonuses, no special powers). That way people could play whatever they want and it won't break the system.

And while were at it lets get rid of classes and just have one power that players can use over and over, and they can refluff that 2w + effect power so it appears that its a different class. Oh wait... we already tried that!