Good non-evocation anti-undead spells?

[jgsugden]

(Double post)

 

[FrankTrollman]

Yes, Mindless Undead can get Will saves if they interact with a Figment.

But unless they are ordered to by a controlling Cleric, they aren't going to.

Mindless Undead do not normally bash themselves against walls, and do not test their surroundings and do not "understand" the world around them. Their program does not the include physical testing of their surroundings required to reveal a suddenly appearing "wall of iron" as fake.

So when you create the illusion of a metal maze all around the skeletons, they'll happily wander around it indefinately - while the party (who can see through it) ready themselves and club individual skeletons like baby harp seals.

Mindless Undead have no particular defense against that tactic unless they are currently being controlled by a Cleric (or other spellcaster).

And of course, if you have a flesh-and-blood opponent on hand controlling the undead, an illusionist or enchanter has lots of useful things to do.

-Frank

 

[Caliban]

Glitterdust is a good spell, it can blind Undead.

 

[Cyraneth]

I'm surprised halt undead hasn't been mentioned yet. It's one of the most useful anti-undead spells a wizards got. Was it too obvious?

Of course, there's also the cute, little disrupt undead spell, but nevermind...

LoD also contains the devastate undead spell, but it's 8th level and if you're not undead yourself you're most likely in for a hurting...

- Cyraneth

 

[Thanee]

I'm surprised halt undead hasn't been mentioned yet. It's one of the most useful anti-undead spells a wizards got. Was it too obvious?

Seems so, must have missed that when looking through the spell list!

Bye
Thanee

 

[jgsugden]

Yes, Mindless Undead can get Will saves if they interact with a Figment.

But unless they are ordered to by a controlling Cleric, they aren't going to.

Mindless Undead do not normally bash themselves against walls, and do not test their surroundings and do not "understand" the world around them. Their program does not the include physical testing of their surroundings required to reveal a suddenly appearing "wall of iron" as fake.

So when you create the illusion of a metal maze all around the skeletons, they'll happily wander around it indefinately - while the party (who can see through it) ready themselves and club individual skeletons like baby harp seals.

In the end, the DM will have to decide what 'interact' means in a game.

I just reread the section on 'saving throws and illusions (disbelief)' in the 3.5 PHB. It gives two options for getting a saving throw: 'Stop and study' or 'interact with it in some fashion'.

I think we'll both agree that 'mindless' undead can not stop and study an illusion. Perhaps if given specific instructions to do so, but generally not.

'Interact with in some fashion' sounds pretty broad to me. Adding 'in some fashion' indicates to me an attempt to broaden the scope of the language and create a very easily met requirement. If the presence of the illusion caused a reaction by the victim, it has interacted with the viewer in some fashion.

The book then goes on to mention two fairly contradictory situations: It suggests probing an illusionary floor is what is sufficient to allow a saving throw, yet it then says that a character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. If I take a long stick and stick it through a seemingly solid looking piece of floor and my stick sinks one foot through the floor, that seems to be pretty 'solid' proof that the floor is not real, thus negating the need for a saving throw. It looks top me like they applied the same threshold to 'what is needed to get a saving throw' and 'what is needed to automatically disbelieve'.

In the end, the DM has to decide exactly how to interpret what constitutes an interaction. My definition is anything that would change the actions of the victim (which is hard for the DM to figure out sometimes ... if the party knew a side hallway covered by an illusion of a wall was present, would they go down that hallway or go along the same path as they would go down if the side hallway was not there?)

**************

Back to the original subject, though, you might want to consider buying a wand. I find that Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is excellent against most undead. It is especially great against incorporeal foes. You may not be able to play 'hampster ball' with it anymore, but you can use it to keep yourself safe if the undead gets out of hand.

 

[mzsylver]

I need some ideas for anti-undead spells for a 10th level wizard with Evocation barred. Are there any out there, or will I be relegated to just buffing my party members?

chain command undead.

like dominate except for undead. oh ya baby.