Goodman Games' DDC writer Harley Stroh on Áereth

catsclaw227

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Goodman Games' DDC writer Harley Stroh on Áereth

Harley Stroh wrote the following in the Goodman Games' forums about how DCC World (Áereth) stacks up with 4e. It's quite interesting especially when reading other tidbits from the thread.



Harley Stroh said:
Please take everything I write with a grain of salt --- I don't have my hands on the SRD yet, so I know as little as everyone else.

From what I've seen and read of 4E, Áereth right where it needs to be. This has nothing to do with us succesfully anticipating 4E but everything to do with Jeff, Mike and I writing a setting that's exciting to play.

In short, we got lucky.

Points of Light: Jeff, Mike and I wrote a PoL setting before Wizards came up with the buzzword. Even the Gaz's introduction highlights this. To me, a setting where even something as simple as travel is fraught with danger is truer to the medieval world, and just plain fun. The heroes need to be Heroes, and everything about Áereth is tailored to keep the spotlight on the PCs.

Tieflings/warlock’s infernal pacts: We got lucky on this one, but we nailed it. Quoted directly from the Gaz:


Like the priest-kings of old, many of those serving the Secret Kings are soulless husks, their souls sold into damnation in return for terrestrial powers. This is not undertaken lightly, since the Secret Kings are far from achieving their goals, and enemies abound. More commonly, the scions of the Secret Kings carry demon blood within their veins. Cambions, tieflings, and half-fiends, so common during the reign of the Priest-Kings, still exist within the dark halls of the Secret Kings.


The 4E tiefling, and pact-making warlocks are already in the setting.

Dragonborn: Again, got lucky, but we nailed it. Or rather, Jason Little nailed it, in his Vault of the Dragon Kings. Dragonborn fall neatly into place as mortal descendents from the deific line of Dragon Kings. This is doubly cool because it means we get to write up noble houses and warriors clans (in some fashion or another) for the dragonborn race. In DCC world, dragonborn adventurers are nobility from a lost age --- warriors where honor is everything, and customs reach back for eons.

Like tieflings, dragonborn aren't common by any stretch of the imagination. 90% of the regular population go their entire life without meeting a dragonborn. But as heroes, they are justified, since their story should be unique.

Split of Elves/Fae Realms: Again, got lucky. Check out Adventure Continues and Castle Whiterock for the first DCC forays into the Fae Realms. Way to go, Adrian and Jess.

Gnomes: Jeff loves gnomes, Harley less so. But Harley got to write the Northlands so you don’t see a lot of gnome lovin’. This was just me being lazy. The relegation of gnomes to "monsters" is a non-issue for me. Before you flame me, see the next point . . .

Most Important: DCC world was always intended to be your world. Hate dragonborn and tieflings? No sweat. Tear the pages out of your players' core books. Love gnomes? Declare Crieste overrun by the little guys. More power to the GM. DCC world is perfectly suited to 4E because, above all else, we always intended for it to be malleable. Don't let me, Joseph, or Wizards tell you how to run your game. Use what inspires you, and throw away the rest.

The 4E Known World isn't terribly different from the old-school Áereth we wrote into DCC #35. It's still a dangerous world rife with adventure and desperately in need of heroes. And, honestly, (please forgive the bias) I can't wait to play in it.
 
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Filcher

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Goodman Games DCCs are some of my favorite adventures. It is cool to see that they be around in fourth edition, and that DCC world doesn't need to take a meta-hit to its backstory to make the switch possible.
 

Sitara

Explorer
But their adventures, from what I can gather, are krawls. (and are meatn to be I know)> They don't offer a fullfilling roleplaying experiance for those looking for something deeper than just hacking their way to the end. (which can be fun, but for many its a chore)

Basically I'm saying maybe they should also offer products to the other crowd, the one more into roleplaying.
 

kennew142

First Post
Sitara said:
But their adventures, from what I can gather, are krawls. (and are meatn to be I know)> They don't offer a fullfilling roleplaying experiance for those looking for something deeper than just hacking their way to the end. (which can be fun, but for many its a chore)

Basically I'm saying maybe they should also offer products to the other crowd, the one more into roleplaying.

Let me put on my grumpy old man hat for a moment.

Back in the day, modules (that's what we called adventures in those days) came with monsters to fight, cool locations and a hint of a storyline. Some GMs ran them just like they came. We called those GMs and the folks they played with, hack-and-slashers. We made fun of them too. [We weren't too nice in those days.]

Those of us who prefer role-playing in our games considered ourselves lucky that modules were written that way. Each GM could take the module, with all the crunchy stuff already statted out for us, and work it into the storyline of our games. We added the necessary plots, changed the names and backgrounds of NPCs to fit our ongoing campaigns, and did the backgoound work to make the module feel like an organic part of the story.

Goodman Games DCC serve the same purpose. I can use their maps and stats, but put my own story elements into the adventures. I find this to be much easier than changing paragrphs of background that doesn't fit my campaign. I will never forget my disappointment in picking up a product from another game company that billed itself as usable in any campaign, only to find that the entire storyline depended on the adventure being set in a mountain chain, along a pass that once upon a time allowed trade between two antithetical nations, but the pass was closed a long time ago. Now it's reopened, and there are factions that .... You can see how too much background info in a supposedly generic adventure made it very difficult to fit into any campaign.

I've used only a few DCC scenarios in my 3e campaigns (mostly because I write most of my own), but I have used a few. I imagine it will be the same in 4e.
 

Remathilis

Legend
Sitara said:
But their adventures, from what I can gather, are krawls. (and are meatn to be I know)> They don't offer a fullfilling roleplaying experiance for those looking for something deeper than just hacking their way to the end. (which can be fun, but for many its a chore)

Basically I'm saying maybe they should also offer products to the other crowd, the one more into roleplaying.

It's harder to sell "modules" that are role-playing intensive. Mostly because those modules that have story or NPC-driven elements quickly descent into railroads.

The two best examples of this style of module (one that is RP heavy without being a complete RR) are The Speaker in Dreams (WotC) and DCC 34: Cage of Delirium (Goodman). Honorable mention to the first half of DCC 24: Legend of the Ripper (which becomes a generic dungeon crawl 1/2 way through an otherwise amazing first half).
 

Flynn

First Post
Sitara said:
But their adventures, from what I can gather, are krawls. (and are meatn to be I know)> They don't offer a fullfilling roleplaying experiance for those looking for something deeper than just hacking their way to the end. (which can be fun, but for many its a chore)

Basically I'm saying maybe they should also offer products to the other crowd, the one more into roleplaying.

Do you have any suggestions as to who does produce that kind of adventure on a regular basis?

I sometimes think that most of the adventures out there are dungeon crawls and the like because it is significantly easier to right a good dungeon crawl than it is to write a roleplaying-focused adventure. The closest published work I've seen in that direction that are produced with consistency tend to be adventures of a crawl-esque nature with roleplaying elements, and that doesn't sound like what you are wanting.

The more examples of good RP-oriented adventures that you can provide, the easier it would be for someone to use them as part of a learning curve to become better RP-oriented adventure writers themselves.

With Regards,
Flynn
 

catsclaw227

First Post
Flynn said:
Do you have any suggestions as to who does produce that kind of adventure on a regular basis?

I sometimes think that most of the adventures out there are dungeon crawls and the like because it is significantly easier to right a good dungeon crawl than it is to write a roleplaying-focused adventure. The closest published work I've seen in that direction that are produced with consistency tend to be adventures of a crawl-esque nature with roleplaying elements, and that doesn't sound like what you are wanting.

The more examples of good RP-oriented adventures that you can provide, the easier it would be for someone to use them as part of a learning curve to become better RP-oriented adventure writers themselves.

Let's see...
  • Necromancer had some real good roleplaying adventures. Lost City of Barakus, Vault of Larin Karr, Doom of Listenshire, Shades of Gray.
  • Monkeygod (now Highmoon Media) had a few as well, Black Ice Well, Shadows under Thessalaine, All the Kings Men, Tsar Rising.
  • Green Ronin's Freeport Trilogy is very role-play heavy.
  • Troll Lord Games has the Kubla Khan trilogy that had a lot of role-play elements .
  • Any Dungeon/Paizo AP is loaded with role-playing elements.
I love DCCs, and have used them quite a bit, but they are really old school feel with a shell designed to build your own role-play elements around. Some people prefer that style, allowing them to fit it easily in their game, others prefer an adventure that has more role-play elements built in, which are then built upon to add to an existing campaign.
 

Scribble

First Post
The problem with designing significant "roleplaying" moments in adventures (in my opinion) is that roleplaying is not rules driven. It's the just because someone is nice doesn't mean I have to like him.

For instance I remember there was an old adventure designed for Basic D&D (don't remember the name or much of the plot) that was about gladiators and the pcs being captured and forced to become gladiators... A significant portion of the module was devoted to what happens when players become friends with a few of the NPC gladiators...

Great... so when my xenophobic suspicious of everyone not in the party group of players got into the adventure the last thing on their mind was making friends... It pretty much stopped the module's usefulness (aside from a map and setup) dead in it's tracks. (as all the encounters written relied on the fact that the pcs were friends with said gladiators...)

Give me a basic background, stats, and some npcs that have a personality fleshed out and leave the story to my group thanks.
 

Filcher

First Post
Sitara said:
But their adventures, from what I can gather, are krawls. (and are meatn to be I know)> They don't offer a fullfilling roleplaying experiance for those looking for something deeper than just hacking their way to the end. (which can be fun, but for many its a chore)

Basically I'm saying maybe they should also offer products to the other crowd, the one more into roleplaying.

For me, this is what the world set (DCC #35) brings. A cohesive, role-playable world, with memorable characters and places to place adventures in.

Plus it came with 2 kewl krawls. ;)
 

BadMojo

First Post
Scribble said:
The problem with designing significant "roleplaying" moments in adventures (in my opinion) is that roleplaying is not rules driven. It's the just because someone is nice doesn't mean I have to like him.

Scourge of the Slavelords, or it's separate bits? That was a nice railroad-y, 1st edition adventure. You were out of luck if you didn't buy in to the starting point of being imprisoned without any other course of action.

Green Ronin has some event-based adventures with good roleplaying bits in their Bleeding Edge series.
 

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