Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="justanobody" data-source="post: 4515751" data-attributes="member: 70778"> <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Where is the player focused starter set?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't the DM have enough to buy after the starter set? I hope it is spelled out within the set that the DM has a lot more money to spend on the books for the full game. Lord knows I spent more money as a DM than a player. For a totally new player they may not have preconcieved notions about the game, or be power mad like us older DMs. Hero Quest used previously as an example had the case of people around me fighting over who HAD to be Morcar and ended drawing lots with the loser having to be Morcar while the others got to play the characters.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You can play D&D without a DM, but it depends on what you are trying to do. The obverse could also be said that a DM cannpt play D&D without the players.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I have never recruited players as a DM, but been drafted to be the DM. As a player I drafted other players in some games by another DM just because the player perspective of the game and the DM met with the interests of the new player. DMs can often sel the game or themselves too much. Like a bad car salesman. One DM I met didn't recruit anyone, but had people begging to know more from an RPGA event. All others seemed self absorbed. Maybe it as the times or locales. I think it beter and more a part of D&D to have the players choose the DM, than a DM try to recruit players for many reasons better left to another thread so as not to derail this one further.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This is true. When the DM bug bites, it often leaves the largest bite marks on the DMs wallet.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Couldn't be more false. The group as a whole holds them together. No matter how good a DM is, it is the other players as well that must get along and be having fun or the DM could end up without a group. DMs are not sociologists. They are important, but not the most important part of the game dynamics of player types. DMs and players are equal in importance.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Difficult in a complex game to start of with. Showing only one part of the game misguides people thinking it if what may be in the starter vs what the full version is. As has been noted the character generation doesn't have to include everything, but give some options to offer little complexity, while still offering the true vision of the game.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Does the starter teach any of this? This all seems to be player choice matters. Giving the PC options to do is not really playing the PC. Many people feel the party roles are superficial. Cooperative group play can be told that the game is a co-op game, but the actual cooperation must come from the group. A starter can do little for this.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Basic mechanics are important but 4th is pretty much only that isn't it? didn't a recent "starter" come with a paperback PHB? Why did it come with a near full book and this not? Comparing mostly to the only starter set I know where is, the game has become more complex that just a basic mechanics understanding could encompass, and that was the red book set of old. With a more complex game, the basic mechanics are not always just basic.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">combat (See DDM)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If the new player/purchaser of the set is the DM, and only has the starter set how can the players rely on the DM to give them more, if not included even in the DM section of the starter set? This point relies heavily on assuming 1d to always be true.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Always good to do with the rising prices of everything these days to ridiculous levels.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cheap and effective. Should mean that tokens are something that can be purchased later and not just something for the starter so that people can choose to buy the minis or the tokens for cost and storage reasons. Will D&D monster/character tokens be made available as a product so that people do not need to buy miniatures to continue playing in the future? I think this would be a good selling item. Something like D&D pogs that take the correct area, but not some CCG model of random distribution since the miniatures already offers that and the tokens wouldn't have a game to them save for D&D or other RPG accessories.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I hope this products states this and people buying KotS and that tile pack do not feel abused and bought both getting nothing new. Or that new players are told that this product combines elements of those other two products so if they wish to continue play they can do so with the full KotS adventure. KotS itself was a sort of starter set anyway.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Its art. Why not have monsters consistant throughout products.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tiles:Its art. Why not reuse it, and odds are one set of tiles is never enough anyway since you will need those corridor or passage ways that there are never enough of. Heck not everyone can afford a Dwarven Forge Master Maze dungeon set that covers their entire basement. Even paper tiles would be good as it helps the main point here of #3 to reduce costs for everyone. Little tape to hold them together and print spare copies when needed and paper tiles would work just as good. I don't think safety sciccors are needed, as parents could help them cut out the tiles for younger consumers.</li> </ul> I think the problem is aiming the starter set at 10-12 year olds. In this country they are not even allowed to have jobs to earn their money, and this means it comes form the parents and they should not just let kids buy anything sight unseen and need to spend time with the children of this adolescent stage and help them with the things they do for leisure activities. And some of those 10-12 year olds are much smarter than given credit for as many learn in schools how to make javascript/XML enabled websites. A little D&D character creation would be...child's play for them. If this starter set was aimed solely at kids, then I think that is its major flaw. All that aside, thanks for explaining many things about the starter set Scott. It is interesting to see this kind of information on our hobby and the directions it is going from the design and marketing aspects. I think this would make an excellent DDI article what you just posted herein. It is exaclty something that seems insider's would be interested in or something that would make someone want to be an insider, or be interested in D&D in the first place. :cookie: And if this forum doesn't have emoticookies then I will figure out how to give you XP for that post.</li> </ol></blockquote>

Verification